Re: [WebDNA] fastcgi 7+ & [cart]?

This WebDNA talk-list message is from

2010

It keeps the original formatting. numero = 105490
interpreted = N
texte = Wow, so much material to respond to. I'll stick with just=20two though.1. WSC has repeated stated that they aren't in the=20application business, and are leaving things like CMS,=20Shopping Cart System, Sitebuilder, etc. etc. available to=20developers like you and me, so we can create kick ass apps=20and sell them to other users, much like all the stuff=20available in php. So don't hold your breath thinking WSC=20is going to come up with a replacement for the old=20commerce system.=A02. As for what is the appeal of the new version: =A0I have=20no urgent plans to move my existing sites to fastCGI; they=20do fine right where they are. However, I look forward to=20being able to develop NEW sites with the fastcgi version,=20and having them hosted where ever the client wants them.TerryOn Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:55:14 -0500 Kenneth Grome wrote:>> What does "The [purchase] tag is not deprecated=20>> though, but should not be operational" even mean?>=20> If you want to continue using the old commerce system=20>that's been available since the PCS days (early 1990's)=20>you should absolutely stick with version 6.2 or earlier=20>-- that's the bottom line. =20>=20> Let me repeat this in another way:>=20> Do NOT use v7.x with your existing webdna sites if they=20>use any of these legacy commerce tags or files:>=20> [addlineitem]=20> [clearlineitems]> [lineitems]> [orderfile]> [purchase]> [removelineitem]> [setheader]> [setlineitem]=20> formulas.db> cart/order files>=20> Just keep using v6.2 for backward compatibility with all=20>your old commerce sites.>=20> Makes sense, right?>=20> Look ... if you want to use a modern new commerce system=20>that's based on v7.0 or later you will simply have to=20>wait a while for WSC (or someone else) to create this new=20>commerce system -- because it does not yet exist.>=20> The fact is, creating a new commerce system that runs on=20>databases and external template code will be a lot of=20>work. I know because I did it more than a decade ago --=20>and I made it run on Typhoon which could open only one=20>database -- and that was long before we had [function]=20>capabilities! =20>=20> Yet after I accomplished this task I had a far more=20>flexible commerce system than webdna could ever offer=20>with its hard-coded built-in capabilities. And since I=20>actually did this so many years ago (with such limited=20>software) I know for a fact that it can be done again=20>today, and far more easily given a multi-database and=20>function capable webdna. But it's still a lot of work=20>even today.>=20> Regardless of all that, let's just face the facts here:>=20> - The old commerce system is an inflexible relic of the=20>1990's that should have been replaced or upgraded a very=20>long time ago, but it never was. =20>=20> - WSC is actually trying to upgrade and improve the=20>webdna software, and unfortunately this is going to mean=20>losing some backward compatibility. But fortunately WSC=20>is thoughtful enough to continue to distribute v6.2 for=20>those who insist upon using the original webdna commerce=20>system.>=20> - WSC plans to remove the inflexible internally coded=20>commerce functions, and just because that code still=20>exists in v7.0 is no reason to assume that you should be=20>moving your existing commerce sites to v7.0 -- because=20>you should NOT!>=20> - WSC's decision to move commerce code to external=20>templates and db files is going to make the FUTURE of=20>webdna commerce unbelievably flexible and customizable=20>... and everyone wants to be able to customize their own=20>systems, right?>=20> RIGHT???>=20> :)>=20> So here's the bottom line as I understand it:>=20> 1- You should continue using v6.2 or earlier if you=20>require backward compatibility with the webdna commerce=20>system that's been programmed into webdna since the=20>1990's.>=20> 2- A modern commerce system for v7.x is not yet=20>available, and when it becomes available it is going to=20>be based on external templates and databases to make it=20>customizable by webdna users like us ... but we simply=20>have to wait for WSC to build this new system unless we=20>are willing to build it ourselves.>=20> Patience is a virtue ... :)>=20> So please don't waste time trying to figure out if your=20>old commerce sites will run under v7.x because unless you=20>do a lot of adjusting they won't. And yes the legacy=20>commerce tags are still hard-coded in v7.0 ... but that=20>doesn't mean you're supposed to try to use them! =20>=20> And it doesn't mean they will still be there in any=20>future versions either ... so sooner or later you're=20>going to have to get rid of your feeling that you have to=20>upgrade to every new version that happens to come along.>=20> Maybe now is the time to realize that you do NOT have to=20>upgrade your old sites to v7.0 ... ???>=20>=20>>By now, anyone paying attention will likely be thinking=20>>of writing all>>future webdna shopping sites with their own db-based=20>>system.. instead>>of using the old shopping cart file system and the=20>>related e-commerce>>[contexts]..=20>=20> Good observation Govinda. But someone could take it=20>upon him/herself to write such a system then sell it as=20>an add-on to other webdna users, too.>=20> :)>=20>=20>>but meanwhile we just want to know if all our old>>untouched shopping sites which did rely on those=20>>e-commerce>>*[contexts]* are going to break under webdna 7?>=20> Yes they will break *UNLESS* you do all these things and=20>more:>=20> 1- create your own ShoppingCarts folder> 2- create your own Orders folders> 3- create your own formulas.db> 4- create other files/folders currently missing from the=20>v7.0 folder hierarchy> 5- move your prefs over to the new webdna.ini file> 6- write a new [thisurl] function to override the v7.0=20>[thisurl] tag>=20> Why bother with all these changes (and probably more=20>than I haven't even thought of) when Chris has already=20>said that he is still going to distribute v6.2? After=20>all, v6.2 is 100% compatible with the legacy commerce=20>system, which means you do not have to make all kinds of=20>changes to get it working!>=20> Here is the important question I have to ask:>=20> Is there some new feature or new capability or bug fix=20>introduced in v7.0 that encourages you to want to use it=20>on your old v6.2 commerce sites? If so, what is this new=20>feature or bug fix that you simply cannot live without?>=20> I ask this question because we already learned that in=20>v7.0 the [thisurl] tag no longer works like it has always=20>worked before, and this was discovered by accident not by=20>WSC reporting the change to us in advance. =20>=20> So what will we do if we find that other changes in v7.0=20>end up breaking our existing v6.2 sites? Are we just=20>going to bitch and complain about it?>=20> Or are we going to face the fact that none of our=20>existing sites should be moved to v7.0 UNLESS we are=20>willing to figure out how to make them work ourselves --=20>WITHOUT bugging WSC for answers on how to get them=20>working on this new version?>=20> Seems to me that with WSC's limited resources we should=20>not be wasting them by pestering Chris asking him how we=20>can get our old sites running on v7.0, especially when he=20>has essentially told us not to bother -- because v7.0 is=20>a "new animal" and it is not supposed to be used to run=20>v6.x websites.>=20> Sincerely,> Kenneth Grome>=20>=20>=20> ---------------------------------------------------------> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed=20>to> the mailing list .> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us=A0 Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:

Wow, so much material to respond to. I'll stick with just=20two though.1. WSC has repeated stated that they aren't in the=20application business, and are leaving things like CMS,=20Shopping Cart System, Sitebuilder, etc. etc. available to=20developers like you and me, so we can create kick ass apps=20and sell them to other users, much like all the stuff=20available in php. So don't hold your breath thinking WSC=20is going to come up with a replacement for the old=20commerce system.=A02. As for what is the appeal of the new version: =A0I have=20no urgent plans to move my existing sites to fastCGI; they=20do fine right where they are. However, I look forward to=20being able to develop NEW sites with the fastcgi version,=20and having them hosted where ever the client wants them.TerryOn Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:55:14 -0500 Kenneth Grome wrote:>> What does "The [purchase] tag is not deprecated=20>> though, but should not be operational" even mean?>=20> If you want to continue using the old commerce system=20>that's been available since the PCS days (early 1990's)=20>you should absolutely stick with version 6.2 or earlier=20>-- that's the bottom line. =20>=20> Let me repeat this in another way:>=20> Do NOT use v7.x with your existing webdna sites if they=20>use any of these legacy commerce tags or files:>=20> [addlineitem]=20> [clearlineitems]> [lineitems]> [orderfile]> [purchase]> [removelineitem]> [setheader]> [setlineitem]=20> formulas.db> cart/order files>=20> Just keep using v6.2 for backward compatibility with all=20>your old commerce sites.>=20> Makes sense, right?>=20> Look ... if you want to use a modern new commerce system=20>that's based on v7.0 or later you will simply have to=20>wait a while for WSC (or someone else) to create this new=20>commerce system -- because it does not yet exist.>=20> The fact is, creating a new commerce system that runs on=20>databases and external template code will be a lot of=20>work. I know because I did it more than a decade ago --=20>and I made it run on Typhoon which could open only one=20>database -- and that was long before we had [function]=20>capabilities! =20>=20> Yet after I accomplished this task I had a far more=20>flexible commerce system than webdna could ever offer=20>with its hard-coded built-in capabilities. And since I=20>actually did this so many years ago (with such limited=20>software) I know for a fact that it can be done again=20>today, and far more easily given a multi-database and=20>function capable webdna. But it's still a lot of work=20>even today.>=20> Regardless of all that, let's just face the facts here:>=20> - The old commerce system is an inflexible relic of the=20>1990's that should have been replaced or upgraded a very=20>long time ago, but it never was. =20>=20> - WSC is actually trying to upgrade and improve the=20>webdna software, and unfortunately this is going to mean=20>losing some backward compatibility. But fortunately WSC=20>is thoughtful enough to continue to distribute v6.2 for=20>those who insist upon using the original webdna commerce=20>system.>=20> - WSC plans to remove the inflexible internally coded=20>commerce functions, and just because that code still=20>exists in v7.0 is no reason to assume that you should be=20>moving your existing commerce sites to v7.0 -- because=20>you should NOT!>=20> - WSC's decision to move commerce code to external=20>templates and db files is going to make the FUTURE of=20>webdna commerce unbelievably flexible and customizable=20>... and everyone wants to be able to customize their own=20>systems, right?>=20> RIGHT???>=20> :)>=20> So here's the bottom line as I understand it:>=20> 1- You should continue using v6.2 or earlier if you=20>require backward compatibility with the webdna commerce=20>system that's been programmed into webdna since the=20>1990's.>=20> 2- A modern commerce system for v7.x is not yet=20>available, and when it becomes available it is going to=20>be based on external templates and databases to make it=20>customizable by webdna users like us ... but we simply=20>have to wait for WSC to build this new system unless we=20>are willing to build it ourselves.>=20> Patience is a virtue ... :)>=20> So please don't waste time trying to figure out if your=20>old commerce sites will run under v7.x because unless you=20>do a lot of adjusting they won't. And yes the legacy=20>commerce tags are still hard-coded in v7.0 ... but that=20>doesn't mean you're supposed to try to use them! =20>=20> And it doesn't mean they will still be there in any=20>future versions either ... so sooner or later you're=20>going to have to get rid of your feeling that you have to=20>upgrade to every new version that happens to come along.>=20> Maybe now is the time to realize that you do NOT have to=20>upgrade your old sites to v7.0 ... ???>=20>=20>>By now, anyone paying attention will likely be thinking=20>>of writing all>>future webdna shopping sites with their own db-based=20>>system.. instead>>of using the old shopping cart file system and the=20>>related e-commerce>>[contexts]..=20>=20> Good observation Govinda. But someone could take it=20>upon him/herself to write such a system then sell it as=20>an add-on to other webdna users, too.>=20> :)>=20>=20>>but meanwhile we just want to know if all our old>>untouched shopping sites which did rely on those=20>>e-commerce>>*[contexts]* are going to break under webdna 7?>=20> Yes they will break *UNLESS* you do all these things and=20>more:>=20> 1- create your own ShoppingCarts folder> 2- create your own Orders folders> 3- create your own formulas.db> 4- create other files/folders currently missing from the=20>v7.0 folder hierarchy> 5- move your prefs over to the new webdna.ini file> 6- write a new [thisurl] function to override the v7.0=20>[thisurl] tag>=20> Why bother with all these changes (and probably more=20>than I haven't even thought of) when Chris has already=20>said that he is still going to distribute v6.2? After=20>all, v6.2 is 100% compatible with the legacy commerce=20>system, which means you do not have to make all kinds of=20>changes to get it working!>=20> Here is the important question I have to ask:>=20> Is there some new feature or new capability or bug fix=20>introduced in v7.0 that encourages you to want to use it=20>on your old v6.2 commerce sites? If so, what is this new=20>feature or bug fix that you simply cannot live without?>=20> I ask this question because we already learned that in=20>v7.0 the [thisurl] tag no longer works like it has always=20>worked before, and this was discovered by accident not by=20>WSC reporting the change to us in advance. =20>=20> So what will we do if we find that other changes in v7.0=20>end up breaking our existing v6.2 sites? Are we just=20>going to bitch and complain about it?>=20> Or are we going to face the fact that none of our=20>existing sites should be moved to v7.0 UNLESS we are=20>willing to figure out how to make them work ourselves --=20>WITHOUT bugging WSC for answers on how to get them=20>working on this new version?>=20> Seems to me that with WSC's limited resources we should=20>not be wasting them by pestering Chris asking him how we=20>can get our old sites running on v7.0, especially when he=20>has essentially told us not to bother -- because v7.0 is=20>a "new animal" and it is not supposed to be used to run=20>v6.x websites.>=20> Sincerely,> Kenneth Grome>=20>=20>=20> ---------------------------------------------------------> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed=20>to> the mailing list .> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us=A0 "Terry Wilson"

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Re: [WebDNA] fastcgi 7+ & [cart]?

2010

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