=Well said Ronald. You got my support on this. Did not like the way it =came across as if Windows servers sucks for WebDNA. I am sure that was =not the intent. May be the meaning got lost during translation. Oh =well.
=
=Cheers TDn
=
From:= =Ronald Kirkland [mailto:rwkirkland@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, =July 11, 2011 04:00
To: talk@webdna.us
Subject: Re: =[WebDNA] An unknown error occured // Deadlock =avoided
I forgot to include on #4, What version =of WebDNA are you using?
On Sun, =Jul 10, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Ronald Kirkland <rwkirkland@gmail.com> =wrote:
Ok, I was not going to respond =to this message as I had nothing to really contribute, but the response =that the developer should migrate to a different server environment to =fix an issue he is having with a programming language that was purchased =(and does have a windows version) is insane. What makes this worse is =that Chris suggested it. I am extremely shocked at this and a little =concerned.
Ken you asked him why he could not migrate? Besides =the "he shouldn't have to," if he is at a company of any size, =there is typically many logistical issues that would have to be =overcome. Server farms, IT department being MS certified (not *nix =people), cost of a new Linux license for a language that is already =giving them troubles, to just name a few.
Now, I have run WebDNA =on Linux, Mac, and Windows since I began using it (when I was hired at =SmithMicro back in 99). All the servers have offered hurdles that had to =be overcome at one time or another. I was running WebDNA on a windows =server until just about a year ago and it had worked fine for =years.
Threatening to move to another language to fix the issue =is not obviously the best way to get support for a product that you are =having issues with. Nor is telling the people who are using it that =their language is not good enough or powerful enough to run enterprise =level apps. I have built some extremely large and complex applications =using WebDNA for many LARGE companies (Boeing, Honeywell, Pillsbury, =etc.). And for the record I am at this very moment dealing with a =massive PHP project that is having issues. And in the past I have run =into the same type of issues with ColdFusion, .Net, and Perl. So =none of the languages are perfect or error proof.
I think our =time would be a little better spent looking at what could actually cause =these issues rather than bashing the language or server choices. =
Tom, I know it can difficult to share code when it is =technically the IP of the company you work for, but there is not always =a blanket reason for something to fail. There are too many variables =that can come into play (write permissions, drivers, registry =constraints, etc.).
Some suggestions and questions to help you =and possibly help us help you:
1. Does this happen every time you =attempt to write to that specific database(s)?
2. Is it always the =same database(s)?
3. Write a simple script that is not accessed via =the app to write test data to the database(s). Does this work or do you =get the same error?
4. Give us more info about the =environment:
- Windows version (please include =service pack too)
- IIS, Apache, something else? =(give versions please)
5. Are other apps using the same files or =directories?
6. Try stepping through the code and see if this is only =happening after a specific task is executed.
I am in agreement =with Ken that this seems to be a configuration issue or an errant code. =I am not going to blame this on the old developer, but perhaps something =changed and the app is expecting A and getting B. We just cannot know at =this time.
Best of luck!
Ron
On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 5:13 AM, Kenneth Grome <kengrome@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the URL to the website you're having all =these
problems with?
What is the URL to the admin system =you've been referring
to?
Yes I know we do not have a =username/password to use it --
but I still want to see it so I know =whether you're talking
about a system I'm familiar with, or one that =someone built
as a custom admin system for your =server.
> No, the reason is that the =entire architecture is
> designed around windows systems - there =are tons of
> things running on the server that require windows, =we
> are thoughouly tied into windows.
You could redirect all http requests to the new Linux =server
while keeping everything else running on your =existing
Windows server. Do you know how to do this? If =so, are you
willing to do this as your FIRST attempt to get the =problem
resolved? Or is this something you are willing to try =after
you've tried other approaches to solve the problem? Or =are
you simply not willing to try this at all?
> Now we =could get another machine to run just the
> webserver on but the =way the system is designed /
> implemented, that would mean I =would have to
> change all places where webdna refers to the =servers
WebDNA does not refer =to other servers, it only works with
the files on the server it is =installed on.
Or are you talking about changing a bunch of http =paths?
This sounds like a 5 minute change via UltraEdit "search =and
replace in files" if you ask me. Or maybe this would =take an
hour or two -- which should still be no big deal in terms =of
the value of actually getting the problem resolved, =right?
Unfortunately you still haven't answered any of my =other
questions so I get the feeling that you're not =really
serious about getting WebDNA fixed anyways. If this is =true
then please tell us that you've given up on WebDNA so =we
don't waste any more time trying to help you.
Otherwise =will you please just give us the URLs I asked for
above? Your =answers to these questions would be a good way
to help us help you, =too:
> > What is your "plan =of action"?
> > Have you tried to reboot the =server yet to see if that
> > clears up the =problems???
> > What are you telling this admin =panel to do?
> > What "admin panel" =are you talking about? The
> > WebDNA admin panel that =came with the WebDNA software,
> > or a separate programmer's =admin panel? Or some other
> > admin =panel?
> > How are you =deleting the probematic database file?
> > Via an admin panel button or =link?
> > Are you flushing the databases =first
> > BEFORE deleting =the database file?
> => How is WebDNA "making a new
> > db" if you are =deleting the existing db?
> > What is it using to populate =this new db?
Sincerely,
Kenneth =Grome
---------------------------------------------------------
Thi=s message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
the mailing =list <talk@webdna.us>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: =<talk-leave@webdna.us>
archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us
Bug =Reporting: support@webdna.us
---------------------------------------------------=------ This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the =mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: archives: =http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us Bug Reporting: =support@webdna.us
=Well said Ronald. You got my support on this. Did not like the way it =came across as if Windows servers sucks for WebDNA. I am sure that was =not the intent. May be the meaning got lost during translation. Oh =well.
=
=Cheers TDn
=
From:= =Ronald Kirkland [mailto:rwkirkland@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, =July 11, 2011 04:00
To: talk@webdna.us
Subject: Re: =[WebDNA] An unknown error occured // Deadlock =avoided
I forgot to include on #4, What version =of WebDNA are you using?
On Sun, =Jul 10, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Ronald Kirkland <rwkirkland@gmail.com> =wrote:
Ok, I was not going to respond =to this message as I had nothing to really contribute, but the response =that the developer should migrate to a different server environment to =fix an issue he is having with a programming language that was purchased =(and does have a windows version) is insane. What makes this worse is =that Chris suggested it. I am extremely shocked at this and a little =concerned.
Ken you asked him why he could not migrate? Besides =the "he shouldn't have to," if he is at a company of any size, =there is typically many logistical issues that would have to be =overcome. Server farms, IT department being MS certified (not *nix =people), cost of a new Linux license for a language that is already =giving them troubles, to just name a few.
Now, I have run WebDNA =on Linux, Mac, and Windows since I began using it (when I was hired at =SmithMicro back in 99). All the servers have offered hurdles that had to =be overcome at one time or another. I was running WebDNA on a windows =server until just about a year ago and it had worked fine for =years.
Threatening to move to another language to fix the issue =is not obviously the best way to get support for a product that you are =having issues with. Nor is telling the people who are using it that =their language is not good enough or powerful enough to run enterprise =level apps. I have built some extremely large and complex applications =using WebDNA for many LARGE companies (Boeing, Honeywell, Pillsbury, =etc.). And for the record I am at this very moment dealing with a =massive PHP project that is having issues. And in the past I have run =into the same type of issues with ColdFusion, .Net, and Perl. So =none of the languages are perfect or error proof.
I think our =time would be a little better spent looking at what could actually cause =these issues rather than bashing the language or server choices. =
Tom, I know it can difficult to share code when it is =technically the IP of the company you work for, but there is not always =a blanket reason for something to fail. There are too many variables =that can come into play (write permissions, drivers, registry =constraints, etc.).
Some suggestions and questions to help you =and possibly help us help you:
1. Does this happen every time you =attempt to write to that specific database(s)?
2. Is it always the =same database(s)?
3. Write a simple script that is not accessed via =the app to write test data to the database(s). Does this work or do you =get the same error?
4. Give us more info about the =environment:
- Windows version (please include =service pack too)
- IIS, Apache, something else? =(give versions please)
5. Are other apps using the same files or =directories?
6. Try stepping through the code and see if this is only =happening after a specific task is executed.
I am in agreement =with Ken that this seems to be a configuration issue or an errant code. =I am not going to blame this on the old developer, but perhaps something =changed and the app is expecting A and getting B. We just cannot know at =this time.
Best of luck!
Ron
On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 5:13 AM, Kenneth Grome <kengrome@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the URL to the website you're having all =these
problems with?
What is the URL to the admin system =you've been referring
to?
Yes I know we do not have a =username/password to use it --
but I still want to see it so I know =whether you're talking
about a system I'm familiar with, or one that =someone built
as a custom admin system for your =server.
> No, the reason is that the =entire architecture is
> designed around windows systems - there =are tons of
> things running on the server that require windows, =we
> are thoughouly tied into windows.
You could redirect all http requests to the new Linux =server
while keeping everything else running on your =existing
Windows server. Do you know how to do this? If =so, are you
willing to do this as your FIRST attempt to get the =problem
resolved? Or is this something you are willing to try =after
you've tried other approaches to solve the problem? Or =are
you simply not willing to try this at all?
> Now we =could get another machine to run just the
> webserver on but the =way the system is designed /
> implemented, that would mean I =would have to
> change all places where webdna refers to the =servers
WebDNA does not refer =to other servers, it only works with
the files on the server it is =installed on.
Or are you talking about changing a bunch of http =paths?
This sounds like a 5 minute change via UltraEdit "search =and
replace in files" if you ask me. Or maybe this would =take an
hour or two -- which should still be no big deal in terms =of
the value of actually getting the problem resolved, =right?
Unfortunately you still haven't answered any of my =other
questions so I get the feeling that you're not =really
serious about getting WebDNA fixed anyways. If this is =true
then please tell us that you've given up on WebDNA so =we
don't waste any more time trying to help you.
Otherwise =will you please just give us the URLs I asked for
above? Your =answers to these questions would be a good way
to help us help you, =too:
> > What is your "plan =of action"?
> > Have you tried to reboot the =server yet to see if that
> > clears up the =problems???
> > What are you telling this admin =panel to do?
> > What "admin panel" =are you talking about? The
> > WebDNA admin panel that =came with the WebDNA software,
> > or a separate programmer's =admin panel? Or some other
> > admin =panel?
> > How are you =deleting the probematic database file?
> > Via an admin panel button or =link?
> > Are you flushing the databases =first
> > BEFORE deleting =the database file?
> => How is WebDNA "making a new
> > db" if you are =deleting the existing db?
> > What is it using to populate =this new db?
Sincerely,
Kenneth =Grome
---------------------------------------------------------
Thi=s message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
the mailing =list <talk@webdna.us>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: =<talk-leave@webdna.us>
archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us
Bug =Reporting: support@webdna.us
---------------------------------------------------=------ This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the =mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: archives: =http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us Bug Reporting: =support@webdna.us
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