Re: [WebDNA] Wishlist: ignore whitespace in database changes
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2016
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 112956
interpreted = N
texte = 543I think that if you want strict data rules then use something that =already has it i.e. MySQL - leave WebDNA the way it is BUT if you want =to control your data type, they write a function.BTW - Please do not drop MySQL as a function of WebDNA - even add to the =DB options !!Kind regardsStuart TremainIDFK Web DevelopmentsAUSTRALIAwebdna@idfk.com.au> On 2 Sep 2016, at 02:58, Patrick McCormick
=wrote:>=20> The Apple II computer used to run a spreadsheet called VisiCalc. When =you entered =E2=80=9C2 + 2=E2=80=9D into a cell, it would do the right =thing and display =E2=80=9C4=E2=80=9D. Any spreadsheet in use today =requires the =E2=80=9C=3D=E2=80=9C in order to do this. WebDNA=E2=80=99s =non-strict treatment of any characters is critically important for a =number of reasons. Among the most important is that the data isn=E2=80=99t= in a separate format - it=E2=80=99s just text in RAM and on disk. Any =function moved into that pile of ASCII is a fundamental problem because =now, part of your logic lives somewhere apart from your programming.>=20> All flavors of SQL owe their existence to their relentless effort of =doing more and more function, therefor requiring proprietary formats & =other quirks. Although it=E2=80=99s frustrating to remember little =things like type=3Dnum, the likelihood of massive future frustration =caused by fragmenting the logic of a web application across different =functional parts will always, ultimately be worse.>=20> Data is not a sacred cow that requires typing, formatting, ==E2=80=9Csafety=E2=80=9D checks, etc. It=E2=80=99s all just a big pile =of ASCII. The less respect you show data, the better the apps you can =create. Yes, it is a time-consuming, frustrating bummer to make sure =you=E2=80=99ve found and eliminated any possible vulnerability when the =database doesn=E2=80=99t do any of that for you, you can provide =profoundly better security when you=E2=80=99re not railroaded by a rigid =spec.>=20> Plus, you already have all of the rigidity by using a SQL database if =you want.>=20> You could also write a set of functions to handle your db calls. =Those functions could refer to a db of db=E2=80=99s and field formats, =executing the same login used in MySQL with regard to data types, =indexing, etc. You would do something like [crud =db=3Dyourdb&field=3Dyourfield&function=3Dadd&data=3Dyourdata] You would =need to write all of the error handling stuff, but that could be highly =customized to your situation.>=20>=20>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 3:59 PM, Brian Burton wrote:>>=20>> I completely agree on the flexibility of manipulating data in =variables. I love the simplicity of doing silly things like =[text]age=3D27[/text] and then [showif [age]>18]=20>> (which strictly speaking shouldn=E2=80=99t be legal since age is a =numeric value in a "text" variable.)>> If anything the [text] tag should be called [variable] to be more =accurate about what=E2=80=99s being stored in it, i.e. unknown variable =data=E2=80=A6=20>>=20>> That being said, I completely disagree when it comes to storing and =retrieving information in a data structure. If i have a field in a data =structure (read: SQL data table or WebDNA database) that is for storing =dates, then allowing someone to store "yesterday" is nonsensical and =causes problems when I try to retrieve dates based on a calculation. =(i.e. leMODDATEdata=3D12/31/2015) Of course I should write code that =stops this data from being stored in the first place, but as a last =resort the database program itself should defend the database to protect =the integrity of the data stored in it. The side effect, which almost =outweighs the protection factor to be candid, is that when retrieving =info, if each field has a predefined data type, the database already =knows how to deal with searches so the programmer doesn't have to =reiterate for each search that this field is a date, or a number, or =whatever.=20>>=20>> Just my two cents.=20>>=20>> -Brian B. Burton>>=20>>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 2:57 PM, christophe.billiottet@webdna.us wrote:>>>=20>>> I personally believe this extra flexibility allows to deal with =database content the way we want, and allows to treat a single field =either as a date, a number or a text field, or even the tree types in a =single page of code.>>>=20>>> I think extra rigidity diminishes creativity, and what I like most =in WebDNA is that it behave like a "chameleon" language. It is so =flexible that you can do whatever you want with it, the way you want.>>>=20>>> I would be interested to read what others have to say about this =requested modification,>>>=20>>> - chris>>>=20>>>=20>>>=20>>>=20>>>=20>>>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 20:08, Brian Burton wrote:>>>>=20>>>> Over the years I=E2=80=99ve been bending WebDNA to my will. I=E2=80=99=ve more or less successfully implemented the view and controller =ideology of an MVC framework in WebDNA, and am getting ever closer to =doing the work to get data models working in webDNA. It=E2=80=99s so =frustrating in 2016 to not be able to tag a field in a database as =unique or numeric and let the language deal with it for you when you =interact with the database. I recently wasted more time then I care to =admit to making [delete db=3Dsomedb&leIDdata=3D10000] work because i =forgot to add &IDtype=3Dnum to the code.>>>=20>>>=20>>>=20>>> --------------------------------------------------------->>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>>> the mailing list .>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us>>=20>>=20>> --------------------------------------------------------->> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>> the mailing list .>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us>=20> ---------------------------------------------------------> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to> the mailing list .> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us---------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed tothe mailing list .To unsubscribe, E-mail to: archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.usBug Reporting: support@webdna.us.
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
543I think that if you want strict data rules then use something that =already has it i.e. MySQL - leave WebDNA the way it is BUT if you want =to control your data type, they write a function.BTW - Please do not drop MySQL as a function of WebDNA - even add to the =DB options !!Kind regardsStuart TremainIDFK Web DevelopmentsAUSTRALIAwebdna@idfk.com.au> On 2 Sep 2016, at 02:58, Patrick McCormick =wrote:>=20> The Apple II computer used to run a spreadsheet called VisiCalc. When =you entered =E2=80=9C2 + 2=E2=80=9D into a cell, it would do the right =thing and display =E2=80=9C4=E2=80=9D. Any spreadsheet in use today =requires the =E2=80=9C=3D=E2=80=9C in order to do this. WebDNA=E2=80=99s =non-strict treatment of any characters is critically important for a =number of reasons. Among the most important is that the data isn=E2=80=99t= in a separate format - it=E2=80=99s just text in RAM and on disk. Any =function moved into that pile of ASCII is a fundamental problem because =now, part of your logic lives somewhere apart from your programming.>=20> All flavors of SQL owe their existence to their relentless effort of =doing more and more function, therefor requiring proprietary formats & =other quirks. Although it=E2=80=99s frustrating to remember little =things like type=3Dnum, the likelihood of massive future frustration =caused by fragmenting the logic of a web application across different =functional parts will always, ultimately be worse.>=20> Data is not a sacred cow that requires typing, formatting, ==E2=80=9Csafety=E2=80=9D checks, etc. It=E2=80=99s all just a big pile =of ASCII. The less respect you show data, the better the apps you can =create. Yes, it is a time-consuming, frustrating bummer to make sure =you=E2=80=99ve found and eliminated any possible vulnerability when the =database doesn=E2=80=99t do any of that for you, you can provide =profoundly better security when you=E2=80=99re not railroaded by a rigid =spec.>=20> Plus, you already have all of the rigidity by using a SQL database if =you want.>=20> You could also write a set of functions to handle your db calls. =Those functions could refer to a db of db=E2=80=99s and field formats, =executing the same login used in MySQL with regard to data types, =indexing, etc. You would do something like [crud =db=3Dyourdb&field=3Dyourfield&function=3Dadd&data=3Dyourdata] You would =need to write all of the error handling stuff, but that could be highly =customized to your situation.>=20>=20>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 3:59 PM, Brian Burton wrote:>>=20>> I completely agree on the flexibility of manipulating data in =variables. I love the simplicity of doing silly things like =[text]age=3D27[/text] and then [showif [age]>18]=20>> (which strictly speaking shouldn=E2=80=99t be legal since age is a =numeric value in a "text" variable.)>> If anything the [text] tag should be called [variable] to be more =accurate about what=E2=80=99s being stored in it, i.e. unknown variable =data=E2=80=A6=20>>=20>> That being said, I completely disagree when it comes to storing and =retrieving information in a data structure. If i have a field in a data =structure (read: SQL data table or WebDNA database) that is for storing =dates, then allowing someone to store "yesterday" is nonsensical and =causes problems when I try to retrieve dates based on a calculation. =(i.e. leMODDATEdata=3D12/31/2015) Of course I should write code that =stops this data from being stored in the first place, but as a last =resort the database program itself should defend the database to protect =the integrity of the data stored in it. The side effect, which almost =outweighs the protection factor to be candid, is that when retrieving =info, if each field has a predefined data type, the database already =knows how to deal with searches so the programmer doesn't have to =reiterate for each search that this field is a date, or a number, or =whatever.=20>>=20>> Just my two cents.=20>>=20>> -Brian B. Burton>>=20>>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 2:57 PM, christophe.billiottet@webdna.us wrote:>>>=20>>> I personally believe this extra flexibility allows to deal with =database content the way we want, and allows to treat a single field =either as a date, a number or a text field, or even the tree types in a =single page of code.>>>=20>>> I think extra rigidity diminishes creativity, and what I like most =in WebDNA is that it behave like a "chameleon" language. It is so =flexible that you can do whatever you want with it, the way you want.>>>=20>>> I would be interested to read what others have to say about this =requested modification,>>>=20>>> - chris>>>=20>>>=20>>>=20>>>=20>>>=20>>>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 20:08, Brian Burton wrote:>>>>=20>>>> Over the years I=E2=80=99ve been bending WebDNA to my will. I=E2=80=99=ve more or less successfully implemented the view and controller =ideology of an MVC framework in WebDNA, and am getting ever closer to =doing the work to get data models working in webDNA. It=E2=80=99s so =frustrating in 2016 to not be able to tag a field in a database as =unique or numeric and let the language deal with it for you when you =interact with the database. I recently wasted more time then I care to =admit to making [delete db=3Dsomedb&leIDdata=3D10000] work because i =forgot to add &IDtype=3Dnum to the code.>>>=20>>>=20>>>=20>>> --------------------------------------------------------->>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>>> the mailing list .>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us>>=20>>=20>> --------------------------------------------------------->> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>> the mailing list .>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us>=20> ---------------------------------------------------------> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to> the mailing list .> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us---------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed tothe mailing list .To unsubscribe, E-mail to: archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.usBug Reporting: support@webdna.us.
Stuart Tremain
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