Re: [WebDNA] Wishlist: ignore whitespace in database changes
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2016
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 112954
interpreted = N
texte = 541 The Apple II computer used to run a spreadsheet called VisiCalc. When = you entered =E2=80=9C2 + 2=E2=80=9D into a cell, it would do the right = thing and display =E2=80=9C4=E2=80=9D. Any spreadsheet in use today = requires the =E2=80=9C=3D=E2=80=9C in order to do this. WebDNA=E2=80=99s = non-strict treatment of any characters is critically important for a = number of reasons. Among the most important is that the data isn=E2=80=99t= in a separate format - it=E2=80=99s just text in RAM and on disk. Any = function moved into that pile of ASCII is a fundamental problem because = now, part of your logic lives somewhere apart from your programming. All flavors of SQL owe their existence to their relentless effort of = doing more and more function, therefor requiring proprietary formats & = other quirks. Although it=E2=80=99s frustrating to remember little = things like type=3Dnum, the likelihood of massive future frustration = caused by fragmenting the logic of a web application across different = functional parts will always, ultimately be worse. Data is not a sacred cow that requires typing, formatting, =E2=80=9Csafety= =E2=80=9D checks, etc. It=E2=80=99s all just a big pile of ASCII. The = less respect you show data, the better the apps you can create. Yes, it = is a time-consuming, frustrating bummer to make sure you=E2=80=99ve = found and eliminated any possible vulnerability when the database = doesn=E2=80=99t do any of that for you, you can provide profoundly = better security when you=E2=80=99re not railroaded by a rigid spec. Plus, you already have all of the rigidity by using a SQL database if = you want. You could also write a set of functions to handle your db calls. Those = functions could refer to a db of db=E2=80=99s and field formats, = executing the same login used in MySQL with regard to data types, = indexing, etc. You would do something like [crud = db=3Dyourdb&field=3Dyourfield&function=3Dadd&data=3Dyourdata] You would = need to write all of the error handling stuff, but that could be highly = customized to your situation. > On Aug 31, 2016, at 3:59 PM, Brian Burton
wrote: >=20 > I completely agree on the flexibility of manipulating data in = variables. I love the simplicity of doing silly things like = [text]age=3D27[/text] and then [showif [age]>18]=20 > (which strictly speaking shouldn=E2=80=99t be legal since age is a = numeric value in a "text" variable.) > If anything the [text] tag should be called [variable] to be more = accurate about what=E2=80=99s being stored in it, i.e. unknown variable = data=E2=80=A6=20 >=20 > That being said, I completely disagree when it comes to storing and = retrieving information in a data structure. If i have a field in a data = structure (read: SQL data table or WebDNA database) that is for storing = dates, then allowing someone to store "yesterday" is nonsensical and = causes problems when I try to retrieve dates based on a calculation. = (i.e. leMODDATEdata=3D12/31/2015) Of course I should write code that = stops this data from being stored in the first place, but as a last = resort the database program itself should defend the database to protect = the integrity of the data stored in it. The side effect, which almost = outweighs the protection factor to be candid, is that when retrieving = info, if each field has a predefined data type, the database already = knows how to deal with searches so the programmer doesn't have to = reiterate for each search that this field is a date, or a number, or = whatever.=20 >=20 > Just my two cents.=20 >=20 > -Brian B. Burton >=20 >> On Aug 31, 2016, at 2:57 PM, christophe.billiottet@webdna.us wrote: >>=20 >> I personally believe this extra flexibility allows to deal with = database content the way we want, and allows to treat a single field = either as a date, a number or a text field, or even the tree types in a = single page of code. >>=20 >> I think extra rigidity diminishes creativity, and what I like most in = WebDNA is that it behave like a "chameleon" language. It is so flexible = that you can do whatever you want with it, the way you want. >>=20 >> I would be interested to read what others have to say about this = requested modification, >>=20 >> - chris >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 20:08, Brian Burton wrote: >>>=20 >>> Over the years I=E2=80=99ve been bending WebDNA to my will. I=E2=80=99= ve more or less successfully implemented the view and controller = ideology of an MVC framework in WebDNA, and am getting ever closer to = doing the work to get data models working in webDNA. It=E2=80=99s so = frustrating in 2016 to not be able to tag a field in a database as = unique or numeric and let the language deal with it for you when you = interact with the database. I recently wasted more time then I care to = admit to making [delete db=3Dsomedb&leIDdata=3D10000] work because i = forgot to add &IDtype=3Dnum to the code. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >> the mailing list . >> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us > Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us --------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us .
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
541 The Apple II computer used to run a spreadsheet called VisiCalc. When = you entered =E2=80=9C2 + 2=E2=80=9D into a cell, it would do the right = thing and display =E2=80=9C4=E2=80=9D. Any spreadsheet in use today = requires the =E2=80=9C=3D=E2=80=9C in order to do this. WebDNA=E2=80=99s = non-strict treatment of any characters is critically important for a = number of reasons. Among the most important is that the data isn=E2=80=99t= in a separate format - it=E2=80=99s just text in RAM and on disk. Any = function moved into that pile of ASCII is a fundamental problem because = now, part of your logic lives somewhere apart from your programming. All flavors of SQL owe their existence to their relentless effort of = doing more and more function, therefor requiring proprietary formats & = other quirks. Although it=E2=80=99s frustrating to remember little = things like type=3Dnum, the likelihood of massive future frustration = caused by fragmenting the logic of a web application across different = functional parts will always, ultimately be worse. Data is not a sacred cow that requires typing, formatting, =E2=80=9Csafety= =E2=80=9D checks, etc. It=E2=80=99s all just a big pile of ASCII. The = less respect you show data, the better the apps you can create. Yes, it = is a time-consuming, frustrating bummer to make sure you=E2=80=99ve = found and eliminated any possible vulnerability when the database = doesn=E2=80=99t do any of that for you, you can provide profoundly = better security when you=E2=80=99re not railroaded by a rigid spec. Plus, you already have all of the rigidity by using a SQL database if = you want. You could also write a set of functions to handle your db calls. Those = functions could refer to a db of db=E2=80=99s and field formats, = executing the same login used in MySQL with regard to data types, = indexing, etc. You would do something like [crud = db=3Dyourdb&field=3Dyourfield&function=3Dadd&data=3Dyourdata] You would = need to write all of the error handling stuff, but that could be highly = customized to your situation. > On Aug 31, 2016, at 3:59 PM, Brian Burton wrote: >=20 > I completely agree on the flexibility of manipulating data in = variables. I love the simplicity of doing silly things like = [text]age=3D27[/text] and then [showif [age]>18]=20 > (which strictly speaking shouldn=E2=80=99t be legal since age is a = numeric value in a "text" variable.) > If anything the [text] tag should be called [variable] to be more = accurate about what=E2=80=99s being stored in it, i.e. unknown variable = data=E2=80=A6=20 >=20 > That being said, I completely disagree when it comes to storing and = retrieving information in a data structure. If i have a field in a data = structure (read: SQL data table or WebDNA database) that is for storing = dates, then allowing someone to store "yesterday" is nonsensical and = causes problems when I try to retrieve dates based on a calculation. = (i.e. leMODDATEdata=3D12/31/2015) Of course I should write code that = stops this data from being stored in the first place, but as a last = resort the database program itself should defend the database to protect = the integrity of the data stored in it. The side effect, which almost = outweighs the protection factor to be candid, is that when retrieving = info, if each field has a predefined data type, the database already = knows how to deal with searches so the programmer doesn't have to = reiterate for each search that this field is a date, or a number, or = whatever.=20 >=20 > Just my two cents.=20 >=20 > -Brian B. Burton >=20 >> On Aug 31, 2016, at 2:57 PM, christophe.billiottet@webdna.us wrote: >>=20 >> I personally believe this extra flexibility allows to deal with = database content the way we want, and allows to treat a single field = either as a date, a number or a text field, or even the tree types in a = single page of code. >>=20 >> I think extra rigidity diminishes creativity, and what I like most in = WebDNA is that it behave like a "chameleon" language. It is so flexible = that you can do whatever you want with it, the way you want. >>=20 >> I would be interested to read what others have to say about this = requested modification, >>=20 >> - chris >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 20:08, Brian Burton wrote: >>>=20 >>> Over the years I=E2=80=99ve been bending WebDNA to my will. I=E2=80=99= ve more or less successfully implemented the view and controller = ideology of an MVC framework in WebDNA, and am getting ever closer to = doing the work to get data models working in webDNA. It=E2=80=99s so = frustrating in 2016 to not be able to tag a field in a database as = unique or numeric and let the language deal with it for you when you = interact with the database. I recently wasted more time then I care to = admit to making [delete db=3Dsomedb&leIDdata=3D10000] work because i = forgot to add &IDtype=3Dnum to the code. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >> the mailing list . >> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us > Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us --------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us .
Patrick McCormick
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