Re: [WebDNA] An unknown error occured // Deadlock avoided
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2011
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 106896
interpreted = N
texte = I do come from an OO background, and I certainly don't question the speedand easy it is to build things in webDNA, simply that I find it verydifficult to maintain. As noted by yourself.It becomes even more difficult when you inherit a system that has had nobackground in planning, and hasnt been cleaned up in 8 years.All that aside.Only two places is the online.db file used.One is just a search with nothing else done to it. The other appends orreplaces in online.db I am guessing this is where the problem is. Despitethis appearing to be a windows problem, I hope someone will look at thisand perhaps comment if it is even sane to do something like this.topbanner.inc[search db=3D[path]../../database/online.db&eqDB_IPdatarq=3D[IPAddress]][showIf [numFound]=3D0][appenddb=3D[path]../../database/online.db]DB_IP=3D[IPAddress]&DB_DATO=3D[DATE]&=DB_TID=3D[time]&DB_URL=3D[url][ThisURL]?a=3Db[FormVariables][hideIf[name]=3Dtemplate]&[name]=3D[value][/hideIf][/FormVariables][/url]&DB_KUN=DEID=3D[kunde]&DB_BROWSER=3D[url][browser][/url]&DB_URL_REF=3D[url][REFER=RER][/url][/append][search db=3D[path]../../database/counter.db&eqDB_DATOdata=3D[date %Y/%m=/%d]] [showIf [numFound]<1] [append db=3D[path]../../database/counter.db]DB_DATO=3D[date%Y/%m/%d]&DB_ANTAL=3D1[/append] [/showIf] [showIf [numFound]>0] =20[replacefoundItems]DB_ANTAL=3D[math][DB_ANTAL]+1[/math][/replacefoundIte=ms] [/showIf] [/search][/showIf][showIf [numFound]=3D1][replacedb=3D[path]../../database/online.db&eqDB_IPdatarq=3D[IPAddress]]DB_DATO=3D=[DATE]&DB_TID=3D[time]&DB_URL=3D[url][ThisURL]?a=3Db[FormVariables][hideI=f[name]=3Dtemplate]&[name]=3D[value][/hideIf][/FormVariables][/url]&DB_KUN=DEID=3D[kunde][/replace][/showIf][/search]With regards to duplicating the error, I tried forcing the issue on ourprevious webserver, we still have this computer - it is just tucked awayready to be gutted and recycled - and I could not replicate the error.Perhaps it is a matter of achieve a certain level of visits before the dbbecomes locked enough for it to have an effect. In our case, this ahs bee=nhappening for quite some time, I dare say the entire time but I cant besure, as I only took over this system a few years ago. But never has itbeen happening more often than it currently is, considering we changedservers just before christmas, it could be a windows issue as has beenpointed out.I have complete access to all servers, its just not everything I amqualified to tamper with. I am by no means an MSSQL expert, but I shallspeak to our MSSQL guy and see if he cant fiddle with the app pool. Inregards to getting someone to look at it, we have debated that quite a bi=there - always the same problem arises. I am not sure how to have anyonelook at it, when I am not able to determine where the problem(s) originat=e,the system is vast (250.000 lines - something which I think is alot, ever=yprevious system I have ever encountered or worked with, has been around50.000 - 100.000 and has had mroe features than this system, granted thatis not webdna's fault but more a design error from the originalimplementors of this system. So seeing as it has taking me about 2=C2=BD =yearsto get a somewhat clear image of what is going on. I don't know how I cou=ldget someone else to look at this system and make recommendations,unfortunately.With regarding to the MSSQL and the online.db lock, I don't think theyrelated the online.db has no relation to the MSSQL server, the MSSQLhandles a lot of other things - I am considering moving this functionalit=yinto MSSQL, as that would atleast resolve the deadlock problem, or so Ihope./TommyOn Mon, 11 Jul 2011 00:05:45 -0700, Ronald Kirkland
wrote:> Hey Tom,>=20> No worries about the previous emails, we have all had days like that.> Let's just move this forward to and see if we cannot find a solution> for those who are having this issue. Like I said, I saw several> appearing in Google searches, Stuart, and you.>=20> I cannot say that the code you got is bad or good, but what I can say> is that WebDNA is a "tag" based language, and as such you will often> end up with very linear coding style. This can and often does lead to> a lot of repeated code in many of the templates. If you are coming> from an OO background then this is going to seem quite> counterproductive to you. But it does allow for quick code, but it can> wreck havoc from a maintenance standpoint. Many tags have been added> over the years to help with this, functions being one of the large> ones. Over the years many of us have learned to build up code> libraries that we can call into our pages using includes, but this> does little for old legacy script.>=20> The tag resource on WebDNA.us is perhaps one of the best tools (that I> know of) but I know how you feel. When I got hired by SmithMicro and> was handed WebDNA I was completely lost. But then I went on to start> my own development firm and continued to use for 10 years. =3D)>=20> While I am no MSSQL expert I would suggest that you set the app pool> to recycle a lot more often. You can do this either from a memory> usage or # requests processed point.>=20> This problem on top of the DB Lock issue you are having, I am starting> to question if your company shouldn't consider an IT Manager that> knows Windows. How much access do you have to the server(s)?>=20> I am also curious if Stuart is connecting to an MSSQL database. Is> this issue coming from the MSSQL database connection rather than the> native flat-file system. I know I have in MSSQL hell right how with a> PHP project and know that it can be temperamental with drivers and> what not.>=20> Then their is the mention that it seems to be coming from a template> that is sharing code. The only reason I am doubting this has anything> to do with it is that Stuart mentioned his system was working fine for> about 5 years and the issue is recent. Putting that aside, have you> considered duplicating this file and giving some of the templates> their own copy of this file to see if it helps?>=20> Since I do not know how these sites are framed out I cannot make any> real code related suggestions that may aid in this, but it is quite> intriguing that it is happening "all of a sudden.">=20> You said that moving to Linux was not a viable solution. Which I> understand, but do you have another windows server that you could> migrate the WebDNA server to in order to see if the issue persists?>=20> Also you might consider contracting someone for a day or two and> giving them access to the servers to see if they can troubleshoot this> for you. Sometimes a fresh set of eyes can help. Obviously get someone> you can trust and consider using some sort of NDA or other agreement.>=20> Best of luck.>=20> Sincerely,> Ron>=20>=20>=20>=20>=20> On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 11:25 PM, Tommy Bell wrote=:>> Ken,>> I do apologise for not answering your questions, I must have missed it>> when>> I replied to another email.>>>> And I shouldn't have bashed on webdna, that was an error on my part. I>> was>> simply frustrated at the lack of documentation and general knowlegde>> about>> the system from my part and the company i work at.>> The previous developer has left no documentation of anything so I haveto>> figure out everything from the ground up again.>>>> This unfortunately spilled into my email.>>>> /Tommy>>>> On 10-07-2011 23:17, Kenneth Grome wrote:>>>>>> I have little patience with people who come here and>>> complain, then refuse to cooperate when we try to help. =C2=A0I>>> had to ask him *twice* for answers to some important>>> questions yet he still hasn't answered -- so does he want>>> our help or not???>>>>>> As Chris said, he hasn't provided a shred of evidence that>>> this is a WebDNA problem. =C2=A0This could easily be a Windows>>> issue which would be identified in a couple of hours if he>>> just copies the site to a Linux server and learns that he>>> cannot reproduce the problem there.>>>>>> This is why I agree with Chris that a couple hours to>>> install and test the site on a Linux server is an excellent>>> way to "cut through the crap" and possibly identify the>>> source of the problem very quickly. =C2=A0If the issue goes away>>> on Linux we have strong evidence that Windows is the culprit>>> rather than WebDNA.>>>>>> And isn't the goal in a situation like this to identify the>>> source of the problem in the least amount of time? =C2=A0It would>>> be for me, especially if the server's traffic were important>>> to me.>>>>>> Sincerely,>>> Kenneth Grome>>> --------------------------------------------------------->>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>>> the mailing list.>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to:>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us>>>>>>>>> -->> Med Venlig Hilsen>> Tommy Dahlb=C3=A6k Bell>>>> Tlf: +45 27 63 00 88>>>> E-mail: tbell05@student.aau.dk>> E-mail: tommy@enkelthed.dk>>>> --------------------------------------------------------->> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>> the mailing list .>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us>>> ---------------------------------------------------------> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to> the mailing list .> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
I do come from an OO background, and I certainly don't question the speedand easy it is to build things in webDNA, simply that I find it verydifficult to maintain. As noted by yourself.It becomes even more difficult when you inherit a system that has had nobackground in planning, and hasnt been cleaned up in 8 years.All that aside.Only two places is the online.db file used.One is just a search with nothing else done to it. The other appends orreplaces in online.db I am guessing this is where the problem is. Despitethis appearing to be a windows problem, I hope someone will look at thisand perhaps comment if it is even sane to do something like this.topbanner.inc[search db=3D[path]../../database/online.db&eqDB_IPdatarq=3D[ipaddress]][showIf [numFound]=3D0][appenddb=3D[path]../../database/online.db]DB_IP=3D[ipaddress]&DB_DATO=3D[date]&=DB_TID=3D[time]&DB_URL=3D[url][thisurl]?a=3Db[formvariables][hideIf[name]=3Dtemplate]&[name]=3D[value][/hideIf][/FormVariables][/url]&DB_KUN=DEID=3D[kunde]&DB_BROWSER=3D[url][browser][/url]&DB_URL_REF=3D[url][REFER=RER][/url][/append][search db=3D[path]../../database/counter.db&eqDB_DATOdata=3D[date %Y/%m=/%d]] [showIf [numFound]<1] [append db=3D[path]../../database/counter.db]DB_DATO=3D[date%Y/%m/%d]&DB_ANTAL=3D1[/append] [/showIf] [showIf [numFound]>0] =20[replacefounditems]DB_ANTAL=3D[math][DB_ANTAL]+1[/math][/replacefoundIte=ms] [/showIf] [/search][/showIf][showIf [numFound]=3D1][replacedb=3D[path]../../database/online.db&eqDB_IPdatarq=3D[ipaddress]]DB_DATO=3D=[date]&DB_TID=3D[time]&DB_URL=3D[url][thisurl]?a=3Db[formvariables][hideI=f[name]=3Dtemplate]&[name]=3D[value][/hideIf][/FormVariables][/url]&DB_KUN=DEID=3D[kunde][/replace][/showIf][/search]With regards to duplicating the error, I tried forcing the issue on ourprevious webserver, we still have this computer - it is just tucked awayready to be gutted and recycled - and I could not replicate the error.Perhaps it is a matter of achieve a certain level of visits before the dbbecomes locked enough for it to have an effect. In our case, this ahs bee=nhappening for quite some time, I dare say the entire time but I cant besure, as I only took over this system a few years ago. But never has itbeen happening more often than it currently is, considering we changedservers just before christmas, it could be a windows issue as has beenpointed out.I have complete access to all servers, its just not everything I amqualified to tamper with. I am by no means an MSSQL expert, but I shallspeak to our MSSQL guy and see if he cant fiddle with the app pool. Inregards to getting someone to look at it, we have debated that quite a bi=there - always the same problem arises. I am not sure how to have anyonelook at it, when I am not able to determine where the problem(s) originat=e,the system is vast (250.000 lines - something which I think is alot, ever=yprevious system I have ever encountered or worked with, has been around50.000 - 100.000 and has had mroe features than this system, granted thatis not webdna's fault but more a design error from the originalimplementors of this system. So seeing as it has taking me about 2=C2=BD =yearsto get a somewhat clear image of what is going on. I don't know how I cou=ldget someone else to look at this system and make recommendations,unfortunately.With regarding to the MSSQL and the online.db lock, I don't think theyrelated the online.db has no relation to the MSSQL server, the MSSQLhandles a lot of other things - I am considering moving this functionalit=yinto MSSQL, as that would atleast resolve the deadlock problem, or so Ihope./TommyOn Mon, 11 Jul 2011 00:05:45 -0700, Ronald Kirkland wrote:> Hey Tom,>=20> No worries about the previous emails, we have all had days like that.> Let's just move this forward to and see if we cannot find a solution> for those who are having this issue. Like I said, I saw several> appearing in Google searches, Stuart, and you.>=20> I cannot say that the code you got is bad or good, but what I can say> is that WebDNA is a "tag" based language, and as such you will often> end up with very linear coding style. This can and often does lead to> a lot of repeated code in many of the templates. If you are coming> from an OO background then this is going to seem quite> counterproductive to you. But it does allow for quick code, but it can> wreck havoc from a maintenance standpoint. Many tags have been added> over the years to help with this, functions being one of the large> ones. Over the years many of us have learned to build up code> libraries that we can call into our pages using includes, but this> does little for old legacy script.>=20> The tag resource on WebDNA.us is perhaps one of the best tools (that I> know of) but I know how you feel. When I got hired by SmithMicro and> was handed WebDNA I was completely lost. But then I went on to start> my own development firm and continued to use for 10 years. =3D)>=20> While I am no MSSQL expert I would suggest that you set the app pool> to recycle a lot more often. You can do this either from a memory> usage or # requests processed point.>=20> This problem on top of the DB Lock issue you are having, I am starting> to question if your company shouldn't consider an IT Manager that> knows Windows. How much access do you have to the server(s)?>=20> I am also curious if Stuart is connecting to an MSSQL database. Is> this issue coming from the MSSQL database connection rather than the> native flat-file system. I know I have in MSSQL hell right how with a> PHP project and know that it can be temperamental with drivers and> what not.>=20> Then their is the mention that it seems to be coming from a template> that is sharing code. The only reason I am doubting this has anything> to do with it is that Stuart mentioned his system was working fine for> about 5 years and the issue is recent. Putting that aside, have you> considered duplicating this file and giving some of the templates> their own copy of this file to see if it helps?>=20> Since I do not know how these sites are framed out I cannot make any> real code related suggestions that may aid in this, but it is quite> intriguing that it is happening "all of a sudden.">=20> You said that moving to Linux was not a viable solution. Which I> understand, but do you have another windows server that you could> migrate the WebDNA server to in order to see if the issue persists?>=20> Also you might consider contracting someone for a day or two and> giving them access to the servers to see if they can troubleshoot this> for you. Sometimes a fresh set of eyes can help. Obviously get someone> you can trust and consider using some sort of NDA or other agreement.>=20> Best of luck.>=20> Sincerely,> Ron>=20>=20>=20>=20>=20> On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 11:25 PM, Tommy Bell wrote=:>> Ken,>> I do apologise for not answering your questions, I must have missed it>> when>> I replied to another email.>>>> And I shouldn't have bashed on webdna, that was an error on my part. I>> was>> simply frustrated at the lack of documentation and general knowlegde>> about>> the system from my part and the company i work at.>> The previous developer has left no documentation of anything so I haveto>> figure out everything from the ground up again.>>>> This unfortunately spilled into my email.>>>> /Tommy>>>> On 10-07-2011 23:17, Kenneth Grome wrote:>>>>>> I have little patience with people who come here and>>> complain, then refuse to cooperate when we try to help. =C2=A0I>>> had to ask him *twice* for answers to some important>>> questions yet he still hasn't answered -- so does he want>>> our help or not???>>>>>> As Chris said, he hasn't provided a shred of evidence that>>> this is a WebDNA problem. =C2=A0This could easily be a Windows>>> issue which would be identified in a couple of hours if he>>> just copies the site to a Linux server and learns that he>>> cannot reproduce the problem there.>>>>>> This is why I agree with Chris that a couple hours to>>> install and test the site on a Linux server is an excellent>>> way to "cut through the crap" and possibly identify the>>> source of the problem very quickly. =C2=A0If the issue goes away>>> on Linux we have strong evidence that Windows is the culprit>>> rather than WebDNA.>>>>>> And isn't the goal in a situation like this to identify the>>> source of the problem in the least amount of time? =C2=A0It would>>> be for me, especially if the server's traffic were important>>> to me.>>>>>> Sincerely,>>> Kenneth Grome>>> --------------------------------------------------------->>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>>> the mailing list.>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to:>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us>>>>>>>>> -->> Med Venlig Hilsen>> Tommy Dahlb=C3=A6k Bell>>>> Tlf: +45 27 63 00 88>>>> E-mail: tbell05@student.aau.dk>> E-mail: tommy@enkelthed.dk>>>> --------------------------------------------------------->> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>> the mailing list .>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us>>> ---------------------------------------------------------> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to> the mailing list .> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
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