Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington

This WebDNA talk-list message is from

2019


It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 114854
interpreted = N
texte = 2482 --Apple-Mail=_04A7AA30-B258-4A69-A66B-BB1F46403085 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hey Brian - that is really weird. I have never tried multiple ethernet = connections on the same address because I just assumed that it = couldn=E2=80=99t possibly work that way. One of the best things about cloud hosting is never ever having to think = about that sort of stuff again. Ever. Every diol of hardware is = configured redundantly. As soon as a data center gets a new server = blade installed into a rack, its components - RAM, CPU, disk, etc., are = inventoried and optimally distributed to that company=E2=80=99s = customers. There is no relationship between what server specs I buy and = any specific machines in the data center. Everything is abstracted so = that anything can fail without interrupting any services. It gets pretty = confusing but products like vSphere are what data centers use to manage = their equipment. That system just tells them how much additional CPU, = RAM & disk they need to keep up with current load and they can also buy = in bulk from Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc., if they need quick = additional capacity while they wait for delivery of physical equipment. The other thing I learned by using WordPress is that WebDNA developers = operate at a fraction of the typical website load that other content = management systems typically use. Because WordPress comes with a back = end & pre-packaged code for themes & plugins, it really =E2=80=9Cshits = the bed=E2=80=9D in terms of cookies, variables, threads, and endless = cruft just to be able to keep track of everything. PHP settings usually = require a minimum of 2500 page variables and timeouts in excess of 180 = seconds. WordPress is a resource hog many thousands of times larger = than WebDAN simply because WebDNA is just a blinking cursor. There is = no environment for themes, plugins, and there is no content management = back end at all. You have to build all of that from scratch. I say get rid of any responsibilities you can - especially hosting. If = WordPress can spin up a presentable website in a few clicks, complete = with back end content management interface and unique theme, then there = ought to be a relatively straight forward way to add WebDNA to that = environment so that we can build any unique functions using WebDNA = syntax and have those functions appear wherever needed within WordPress = (or, ultimately any other) CMS. I don=E2=80=99t know why or how Mac can assign the same IP to 2 = different physical ports, but I wouldn=E2=80=99t want my clients = websites running on top of a mystery, if I can avoid it. In my case, if = I felt that anything was operating slowly, I would just send a tech = support ticket saying =E2=80=9Cit seems too slow=E2=80=9D and let them = figure it out. I=E2=80=99m done deciphering back end spooky nonsense = when there readily available, trained armies who are far better than me = & my Mac. Dumping responsibility makes a more stable server, and that certainly = includes hosting. A managed server is fully redundant, automatically = backed up and even client billings are fully automatic - to the point = where, should a credit card get declined, the timer to automatically = disable hosting goes into effect & that client is notified by email. = The less code I write, the less chance for any problems that I might = cause. THere=E2=80=99s a huge war chest of pre-build & fully tested = code available from places like GitHub. Those represent all the people = who have encountered and solved the same problems I=E2=80=99ve run into, = but they solved it with an entire group of contributors, any one of = which are probably smarter than me. Don=E2=80=99t I owe the best = possible solutions to my clients? Then why would I screw up my = responsibility by thinking for a moment that my single mind might hold = the best answers? I=E2=80=99m pretty sure those gangs would crush me = every time. As a programmer, I tend to immediately attack every = challenge with my own code, but that=E2=80=99s a hopelessly egotistic = reaction for which my clients and I will both suffer. The correct = response is the question - =E2=80=9CWho=E2=80=99s already done the best = job of solving this already?=E2=80=9D And ironically, it=E2=80=99s the = same coder=E2=80=99s ego that motivates all those programmers to show = off all that great coding ability in places like GitHub. Think of the = man years of proven, tested, free code that=E2=80=99s just sitting = there, free for the taking. > On Oct 1, 2019, at 12:43 AM, Brian Harrington = wrote: >=20 > I know none of you care what I have to say and some of my ideas are = off the wall... but this might help someone with slow Apache or slow = internet connections. >=20 > My newer (2009) more powerful Mac Pro 12 core 3.46/ 128GM ram/ 4 1TB = SSD's in RAID seemed to have fast speedtest but Apache still took about = 30 seconds to deliver my web pages > and my older (2008) Mac with about 1/4 the horsepower was always very = quick (instantly)in delivering my web pages until suddenly it's = connection 400/20 will only max out at about 175/20 and took about 30 = seconds or more to deliver web pages. I tried every config on my router = and network settings and even tried 2 ethernet connections (different = ip's) and still slow page loads. And just now I accidentally had my two = ethernet connections at the same DHCP 192.168.0.2 and it cut the page = loads into less than half... Not sure if it matters but the remote DNS = are reversed on the 2 connections... images attached. >=20 > It also might create a very little Redundancy if one ethernet port = should fail... attached images.=20 >=20 > Note: Deleted my Digital Ocean account as page loads the few times my = sites were working there are about the same as my home connection now = and building site via FTP is a pain and slow... >=20 > On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 8:51 PM Stuart Tremain = > wrote: > Hi Patrick >=20 > Unfortunately you can=E2=80=99t rely on the WebDNA url(s) being = current. >=20 > We have found recently that there is an Apache config that needs to be = put into an override file, none of this is included in the WebDNA Server = edition installers. >=20 > If you want to make this happen I would concentrate on the fcgi = version as this is designed to be relevant to the domain root rather = than servicing the entire machine, so in keeping with the cPanel = concept. A user would install WebDNA or PHP (not both), that is where = WebDNA needs to go to widen the use of the language. Getting in peoples = faces is the way to go, curious users would then at least look into the = language and hopefully give it a go. >=20 > I can=E2=80=99t see why it could not be achieved, but then I have = never done anything more than use cPanel as a user. >=20 > I would really like to see this happen. >=20 > Patrick it may be more appropriate to change this subject to cPanel & = WebDNA >=20 > Kind regards >=20 > Stuart Tremain > Pharoah Lane Software > AUSTRALIA > webdna@plsoftware.com.au >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On 1 Oct 2019, at 10:33, Patrick McCormick > wrote: >>=20 >> Yes, Stuart, >>=20 >> Not only do I have access to the full machine, I have a 24/7 staff = that is willing to help with anything I ask them for. They have been = outstanding. It might work out great. >>=20 >> I know I would probably have to make some sort of configuration = utility for cPanel & make a pretty icon, but cPanle is very well = documented and I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s much more than linking = a cPanel icon to the WebDNA config URL(s), once the software is properly = installed in whatever version of unix. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Sep 30, 2019, at 5:41 PM, Stuart Tremain = > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi Patrick >>>=20 >>> The addition of WebDNA into the app library of cPanel would be a = great boost for WebDNA.. >>>=20 >>> Many years ago I shopped around different hosting companies for them = to make WebDNA available on their cPanel configs - none were willing. >>>=20 >>> If you have total access to your machine and are familiar with the = OS on the machine and the workings of cPanel then it would be a = worthwhile exercise to get it going. Your best bet on getting help to = achieve this would be a cPanel support group as I am pretty sure that = there is no-one using WebDNA on cPanel. >>>=20 >>> Long term it would be beneficial to everyone and the WebDNA language = to have WebDNA installed via cPanel. >>>=20 >>> I for one would be very interested in what you can achieve. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Kind regards >>>=20 >>> Stuart Tremain >>> Pharoah Lane Software >>> AUSTRALIA >>> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 1 Oct 2019, at 05:06, Patrick McCormick = > wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> I recently upgraded a server at the hosting company I=E2=80=99ve = been using: futurehosting.com >>>>=20 >>>> I have a dedicated machine, second from the max size. In addition = to cPanel, that level of contract includes WHM, which is an = administration level that allows me to resell cPanel accounts. I would = like to try to get a working cPanel installation of WebDNA onto this = machine to be used by anyone on this list to install WebDNA into any = cPanel hosting environment. =20 >>>>=20 >>>> If I can get WebDNA functioning on this server, I will provide = hosting for redistribution for the fresh installation of cPanel & WebDNA = for anyone needing it for a cPanel hosting company. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On Sep 29, 2019, at 8:56 PM, Donovan Brooke > wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hey Brian... I think the gist is, it is great that you are using = WebDNA. The list is here to try and help. Unfortunately, the users here = don=E2=80=99t always have the the time / resources to help. Don=E2=80=99t = hold that against them. Stuart is a one of a very few champions of = WebDNA. He deserves the respect that goes with that.=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> In short... us long-time members will always try to help if we = can. Just don=E2=80=99t F with us. We have been through a lot ;-) >>>>>=20 >>>>> Cheers. >>>>> Donovan=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> D. Brooke Mobile >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Sep 29, 2019, at 4:09 PM, Brian Harrington = > wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> FYI I NEVER MENTIONED YOUR NAME OR U WERE THE ONE HELPING ME! = THEY ALL ASSUMED THAT I'M SURE CUZ U ALL SO CLOSE... AND BTW YES I WAS = PLANNING ON DOING SOMETHING TO REPAY YOU FOR "HELPING" ME! AND I'M SURE = IF YOU REVIEW ALL YOUR NOTES I SAID THANK YOU MANY TIMES! AND I HOPE = WHAT I DID TO MAKE MY LIFE EASIER ON THE FILE PATH ISSUE HELPS OTHERS!!! >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:58 PM Stuart Tremain = > wrote: >>>>>> I have really leaned another one of this life's lessons today. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> As any member of this list will may or may not know I have been = an active member of this list for 20+ years. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> During this time I have learned so much about the use of WebDNA = from people such as Ken Grome, Donovan Brooke, and others that have = since moved on. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I have always tried hard to return the favour and as such at = times have gone far and beyond the task of offering help. I have enjoyed = giving back to the community from which my skills have grown. This I = believe is the reason why I have been contracted by WebDNA users from = around the world. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I have seen many users over the years with configuration = problems, in particular the last few weeks with Ubuntu 18.04, hence the = reason why I wrote the instructions a week or so ago on how to set up = WebDNA on a fresh installation of Ubuntu 18.04 - I even went as far as = to provide an image of the same available to anyone that would like it, = all in the hope that WebDNA would become a quick easy solution for = members of this list to implement. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I had a number of people request a copy of this image, none of = whom have taken up the offer. One user requested that I build an image = that anyone could use on any platform. However this is not possible for = cloud servers as each cloud provider has their own flavour of Ubuntu = tuned to their hosting configuration. The instructions that I publish = will work if you follow the steps on any host and/or new Ubuntu 18.0 = installation. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> And then along came Brian Harrington.=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I must preface this with the fact that everything that i have = done for Brian was at no charge, purely a gesture of good will that I = extend to all members of this list. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Brian was unable to log into the Ubuntu 18.04 Droplet that he = created. I offered to meet him on Skype to help him get past his hurdle = - less than a minute later I had connected to the Droplet (a virtual = server) using ssh, Brian had some confusion as to how that was achieved, = and had not received the image that I had shared with him from = DigitalOcean. So to make things easier and so that he didn=E2=80=99t = have to go backwards I simply completed the installation from the = instructions that I had published. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Less than 20 minutes later Brian was the owner of a shiny new = Ubuntu 18.04 server complete with a working installation of WebDNA = server that was only requiring a license number. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> As you will know, if you have read the published instructions, = Webmin is also installed on the Droplet. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> What happened next is purely comical, if I published the emails = that I received and you read the warnings that I provided, plus the = repeated advice that I gave, you would see exactly where Brian=E2=80=99s = problems are. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> =46rom here all Brian needed to do was upload his websites to = /var/www/html and set up his Virtual hosts - at this stage WebDNA was = 100% functional with all the standard file extensions that are installed = with the WebDNA installer. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> As an additional task I set up two Virtual Hosts, one on 80 the = other on 443 with the ssl certificate that he supplied so that he could = have a working reference. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> However Brian had other plans, he wanted to create a new = directory /Library/Websites to be the root directory of his webserver, = remember this is the same person that has had no experience with a Linux = server, he has had experience with a Mac server so I believed that he = had a good sense of being able to manage a Linux Server. Brian didn=E2=80=99= t want to use the installed Webmin, he wanted to do all Apache = configuration by uploading files with FTP however he didn=E2=80=99t have = a FTP client. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Brian, you may remember the Skype message that I sent you = expressing my concern that if you work outside the standard installation = you would break it. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> For the rest of the week I continued to help him, answer his = questions, provide advice. All the time doing my own work that Brian=E2=80= =99s emails were interrupting. As I live in Sydney there were times that = I was not able to answer him immediately due to the 10 hour time = difference. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Then on Friday afternoon (Sydney time) I received yet another = email from Brian - he had locked himself out of his server, yes, I fixed = this for him too, repaired his non-root user with sudo privileges and = advised him that in 19 minutes time I would be leaving for the weekend. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> So it is now Sunday morning in Sydney, I have turned on my = computer this morning after have a =E2=80=98family=E2=80=99 day = yesterday to see the usually quiet WebDNA list dominated by Brian = continuing to have issues with his installation. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> What does surprise me, and leads me to writing this email are = comments pointed to myself by Brian such as: >>>>>> "TalkList members say they will help... then they are GONE and = suddenly don't has access to email or skype???!!! Nothing worse than = someone setting you up to fail...!!!=E2=80=9D >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Brian had a very large VHost file that he moved from his Mac = server to the Linux environment without any alterations. He believes = that it was easier to change the configuration of the Linux/Apache = server than to use search and replace on his VHost file. Brian=E2=80=99s = problems relate directly to Permissions and the relocation of his server = root. I note that Brian has said:=20 >>>>>> " I have no idea why Stuart thinks /Library/Webserver files are = gonna be an issue when apache2.conf list share folder and everything = else.=E2=80=9D, I guess to Brian taking advice from someone that has 23 = operational Ubuntu 18.04 servers really doesn=E2=80=99t make much sense. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> So Brian, if you had followed my advice, you would have been 100% = operational as soon as all your files had been uploaded to the = /var/www/html directory and had their ownership and preferences checked, = and had simply changed the root locations in your vhost configuration = file simply with a search and replace with your text editor. If you = listened to the FREE advice that you were given or you could have even = asked me to do it you would have had a fully functional server many days = ago. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Now I would like to see a retraction of the ill placed comments = that you have made about me. >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Stuart Tremain >>>>>> Pharoah Lane Software >>>>>> AUSTRALIA >>>>>> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> --=20 >>>>>> Brian Harrington >>>>>> Auto Glass Xpress >>>>>> 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 >>>>>> Getzville, NY 14068 >>>>>> (716) 861-2029 >>>>>> www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com = ---------------------------------------= ------------------ This message is sent to you because you are = subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To = unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us = archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us = ------------------------------------------------= --------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the = mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, = E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us > --------------------------------------------------------- This message = is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >=20 > --=20 > Brian Harrington > Auto Glass Xpress > 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 > Getzville, NY 14068 > (716) 861-2029 > www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com = ---------------------------------------= ------------------ This message is sent to you because you are = subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us --Apple-Mail=_04A7AA30-B258-4A69-A66B-BB1F46403085 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hey = Brian - that is really weird.  I have never tried multiple ethernet = connections on the same address because I just assumed that it = couldn=E2=80=99t possibly work that way.

One of the best things about cloud = hosting is never ever having to think about that sort of stuff again. = Ever.  Every diol of hardware is configured redundantly.  As = soon as a data center gets a new server blade installed into a rack, its = components - RAM, CPU, disk, etc., are inventoried and optimally = distributed to that company=E2=80=99s customers.  There is no = relationship between what server specs I buy and any specific machines = in the data center. Everything is abstracted so that anything can fail = without interrupting any services. It gets pretty confusing but products = like vSphere are what data centers use to manage their equipment. =  That system just tells them how much additional CPU, RAM & = disk they need to keep up with current load and they can also buy in = bulk from Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc., if they need quick additional = capacity while they wait for delivery of physical equipment.

The other thing I = learned by using WordPress is that WebDNA developers operate at a = fraction of the typical website load that other content management = systems typically use.  Because WordPress comes with a back end = & pre-packaged code for themes & plugins, it really =E2=80=9Cshits= the bed=E2=80=9D in terms of cookies, variables, threads, and endless = cruft just to be able to keep track of everything.  PHP settings = usually require a minimum of 2500 page variables and timeouts in excess = of 180 seconds.  WordPress is a resource hog many thousands of = times larger than WebDAN simply because WebDNA is just a blinking = cursor.  There is no environment for themes, plugins, and there is = no content management back end at all.  You have to build all of = that from scratch.

I say get rid of any responsibilities you can - especially = hosting.  If WordPress can spin up a presentable website in a few = clicks, complete with back end content management interface and unique = theme, then there ought to be a relatively straight forward way to add = WebDNA to that environment so that we can build any unique functions = using WebDNA syntax and have those functions appear wherever needed = within WordPress (or, ultimately any other) CMS.

I don=E2=80=99t know why or how Mac can = assign the same IP to 2 different physical ports, but I wouldn=E2=80=99t = want my clients websites running on top of a mystery, if I can avoid it. =  In my case, if I felt that anything was operating slowly, I would = just send a tech support ticket saying =E2=80=9Cit seems too slow=E2=80=9D= and let them figure it out. I=E2=80=99m done deciphering back end = spooky nonsense when there readily available, trained armies who are far = better than me & my Mac.

Dumping responsibility makes a more = stable server, and that certainly includes hosting.  A managed = server is fully redundant, automatically backed up and even client = billings are fully automatic - to the point where, should a credit card = get declined, the timer to automatically disable hosting goes into = effect & that client is notified by email.  The less code I = write, the less chance for any problems that I might cause. =  THere=E2=80=99s a huge war chest of pre-build & fully tested = code available from places like GitHub.  Those represent all the = people who have encountered and solved the same problems I=E2=80=99ve = run into, but they solved it with an entire group of contributors, any = one of which are probably smarter than me.  Don=E2=80=99t I owe the = best possible solutions to my clients? Then why would I screw up my = responsibility by thinking for a moment that my single mind might hold = the best answers?  I=E2=80=99m pretty sure those gangs would crush = me every time. As a programmer, I tend to immediately attack every = challenge with my own code, but that=E2=80=99s a hopelessly egotistic = reaction for which my clients and I will both suffer. The correct = response is the question - =E2=80=9CWho=E2=80=99s already done the best = job of solving this already?=E2=80=9D And ironically, it=E2=80=99s the = same coder=E2=80=99s ego that motivates all those programmers to show = off all that great coding ability in places like GitHub. Think of the = man years of proven, tested, free code that=E2=80=99s just sitting = there, free for the taking.




On Oct = 1, 2019, at 12:43 AM, Brian Harrington <autoglasswny@gmail.com> wrote:

I know none of you care what I have to say and some of my = ideas are off the wall... but this might help someone with slow Apache = or slow internet connections.

My newer (2009) more powerful Mac Pro 12 core 3.46/ 128GM = ram/ 4 1TB SSD's in RAID seemed to have fast speedtest but Apache still = took about 30 seconds to deliver my web pages
 and my older (2008) Mac with about 1/4 the horsepower = was always very quick (instantly)in delivering my web pages until = suddenly it's connection 400/20 will only max out at about 175/20 and = took about 30 seconds or more to deliver web pages. I tried every config = on my router and network settings and even tried 2 ethernet connections = (different ip's) and still slow page loads. And just now I = accidentally had my two ethernet connections at the same DHCP = 192.168.0.2 and it cut the page loads into less than half... Not sure if = it matters but the remote DNS are reversed on the 2 connections... = images attached.

It also might create a very little Redundancy if one ethernet port = should fail... attached images. 

Note: Deleted my Digital Ocean account = as page loads the few times my sites were working there are about the = same as my home connection now and building site via FTP is a pain and = slow...

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 8:51 PM Stuart = Tremain <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> wrote:
Hi Patrick

Unfortunately you can=E2=80=99t rely on = the WebDNA url(s) being current.

We have found recently that there is an = Apache config that needs to be put into an override file, none of this = is included in the WebDNA Server edition installers.

If you want to make this = happen I would concentrate on the fcgi version as this is designed to be = relevant to the domain root rather than servicing the entire machine, so = in keeping with the cPanel concept. A user would install WebDNA or PHP = (not both), that is where WebDNA needs to go to widen the use of the = language. Getting in peoples faces is the way to go, curious users would = then at least look into the language and hopefully give it a = go.

I can=E2=80=99= t see why it could not be achieved, but then I have never done anything = more than use cPanel as a user.

I would really like to see this = happen.

Patrick = it may be more appropriate to change this subject to cPanel & = WebDNA

Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane = Software
AUSTRALIA
webdna@plsoftware.com.au







On 1 Oct 2019, at 10:33, Patrick McCormick <duganmccormick@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, Stuart,

Not only do I have access to the full machine, I have a 24/7 = staff that is willing to help with anything I ask them for.  They = have been outstanding.  It might work out great.

I know I would probably = have to make some sort of configuration utility for cPanel & make a = pretty icon, but cPanle is very well documented and I don=E2=80=99t = think it=E2=80=99s much more than linking a cPanel icon to the WebDNA = config URL(s), once the software is properly installed in whatever = version of unix.



On Sep 30, 2019, at 5:41 PM, = Stuart Tremain <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> = wrote:

Hi Patrick

The addition of WebDNA into the app = library of cPanel would be a great boost for WebDNA..

Many years ago I shopped = around different hosting companies for them to make WebDNA available on = their cPanel configs - none were willing.

If you have total access to your = machine and are familiar with the OS on the machine and the workings of = cPanel then it would be a worthwhile exercise to get it going. Your best = bet on getting help to achieve this would be a cPanel support group as I = am pretty sure that there is no-one using WebDNA on cPanel.

Long term it would be = beneficial to everyone and the WebDNA language to have WebDNA installed = via cPanel.

I = for one would be very interested in what you can achieve.


Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane = Software
AUSTRALIA
webdna@plsoftware.com.au







On 1 Oct 2019, at 05:06, Patrick McCormick <duganmccormick@gmail.com> wrote:

I recently upgraded a server at the hosting company I=E2=80=99v= e been using:  futurehosting.com

I have a dedicated machine, second from = the max size.  In addition to cPanel, that level of contract = includes WHM, which is an administration level that allows me to resell = cPanel accounts. I would like to try to get a working cPanel = installation of WebDNA onto this machine to be used by anyone on this = list to install WebDNA into any cPanel hosting environment. =  

If I = can get WebDNA functioning on this server, I will provide hosting for = redistribution for the fresh installation of cPanel & WebDNA for = anyone needing it for a cPanel hosting company.




On Sep 29, 2019, at 8:56 PM, Donovan Brooke = <dbrooke@euca.us> wrote:

Hey Brian... I think the gist = is, it is great that you are using WebDNA. The list is here to try and = help. Unfortunately, the users here don=E2=80=99t always have the the = time / resources to help. Don=E2=80=99t hold that against them. Stuart = is a one of a very few champions of WebDNA. He deserves the respect that = goes with that. 

In short... us long-time members will always try to help if = we can. Just don=E2=80=99t F with us. We have been through a lot = ;-)

Cheers.
Donovan 

D. Brooke = Mobile

On Sep 29, 2019, = at 4:09 PM, Brian Harrington <autoglasswny@gmail.com> wrote:

FYI I NEVER MENTIONED = YOUR NAME OR U WERE THE ONE HELPING ME! THEY ALL ASSUMED THAT I'M SURE = CUZ U ALL SO CLOSE... AND BTW YES I WAS PLANNING ON DOING SOMETHING TO = REPAY YOU FOR "HELPING" ME! AND I'M SURE IF YOU REVIEW ALL YOUR NOTES I = SAID THANK YOU MANY TIMES! AND I HOPE WHAT I DID TO MAKE MY LIFE EASIER = ON THE FILE PATH ISSUE HELPS OTHERS!!!

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:58 PM Stuart Tremain = <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> wrote:
I have really leaned = another one of this life's lessons today.

As any member of this list will may or = may not know I have been an active member of this list for 20+ = years.

During = this time I have learned so much about the use of WebDNA from people = such as Ken Grome, Donovan Brooke, and others that have since moved = on.

I have = always tried hard to return the favour and as such at times have gone = far and beyond the task of offering help. I have enjoyed giving back to = the community from which my skills have grown. This I believe is the = reason why I have been contracted by WebDNA users from around the = world.

I have = seen many users over the years with configuration problems, in = particular the last few weeks with Ubuntu 18.04, hence the reason why I = wrote the instructions a week or so ago on how to set up WebDNA on a = fresh installation of Ubuntu 18.04 - I even went as far as to provide an = image of the same available to anyone that would like it, all in the = hope that WebDNA would become a quick easy solution for members of this = list to implement.

I had a number of people request a copy of this image, none = of whom have taken up the offer. One user requested that I build an = image that anyone could use on any platform. However this is not = possible for cloud servers as each cloud provider has their own flavour = of Ubuntu tuned to their hosting configuration. The instructions that I = publish will work if you follow the steps on any host and/or new Ubuntu = 18.0 installation.

And then along came Brian Harrington. 

I must preface this with = the fact that everything that i have done for Brian was at no charge, = purely a gesture of good will that I extend to all members of this = list.

Brian = was unable to log into the Ubuntu 18.04 Droplet that he created. I = offered to meet him on Skype to help him get past his hurdle - less than = a minute later I had connected to the Droplet (a virtual server) using = ssh, Brian had some confusion as to how that was achieved, and had not = received the image that I had shared with him from DigitalOcean. So to = make things easier and so that he didn=E2=80=99t have to go backwards I = simply completed the installation from the instructions that I had = published.

Less = than 20 minutes later Brian was the owner of a shiny new Ubuntu 18.04 = server complete with a working installation of WebDNA server that was = only requiring a license number.

As you will know, if you have read the = published instructions, Webmin is also installed on the = Droplet.

What = happened next is purely comical, if I published the emails that I = received and you read the warnings that I provided, plus the repeated = advice that I gave,  you would see exactly where Brian=E2=80=99s = problems are.

=46rom here all Brian needed to do was upload his websites to = /var/www/html and set up his Virtual hosts - at this stage WebDNA was = 100% functional with all the standard file extensions that are installed = with the WebDNA installer.

As an additional task I set up two Virtual Hosts, one on 80 = the other on 443 with the ssl certificate that he supplied so that he = could have a working reference.

However Brian had other plans, he = wanted to create a new directory /Library/Websites to be the root = directory of his webserver, remember this is the same person that has = had no experience with a Linux server, he has had experience with a Mac = server so I believed that he had a good sense of being able to manage a = Linux Server. Brian didn=E2=80=99t want to use the installed Webmin, he = wanted to do all Apache configuration by uploading files with FTP = however he didn=E2=80=99t have a FTP client.

Brian, you may remember the Skype = message that I sent you expressing my concern that if you work outside = the standard installation you would break it.

For the rest of the week I continued to = help him, answer his questions, provide advice. All the time doing my = own work that Brian=E2=80=99s emails were interrupting. As I live in = Sydney there were times that I was not able to answer him immediately = due to the 10 hour time difference.

Then on Friday afternoon (Sydney time) = I received yet another email from Brian - he had locked himself out of = his server, yes, I fixed this for him too, repaired his non-root user = with sudo privileges and advised him that in 19 minutes time I would be = leaving for the weekend.

So it is now Sunday morning in Sydney, I have turned on my = computer this morning after have a =E2=80=98family=E2=80=99 day = yesterday to see the usually quiet WebDNA list dominated by Brian = continuing to have issues with his installation.

What does surprise me, and leads me to = writing this email are comments pointed to myself by Brian such = as:
"TalkList = members say they will help... then they are GONE and suddenly don't has = access to email or skype???!!! Nothing worse than someone setting you up = to fail...!!!=E2=80=9D

Brian had a very large VHost file that he = moved from his Mac server to the Linux environment without any = alterations. He believes that it was easier to change the configuration = of the Linux/Apache server than to use search and replace on his VHost = file. Brian=E2=80=99s problems relate directly to Permissions and the = relocation of his server root. I note that Brian has = said: 
" I have no idea why Stuart thinks = /Library/Webserver files are gonna be an issue when apache2.conf list = share folder and everything else.=E2=80=9D, I guess to Brian taking = advice from someone that has 23 operational Ubuntu 18.04 servers = really doesn=E2=80=99t make much sense.

So= Brian, if you had followed my advice, you would have been 100% = operational as soon as all your files had been uploaded to the = /var/www/html directory and had their ownership and preferences = checked, and had simply changed the root locations in = your vhost configuration file simply with a search and replace with = your text editor. If you listened to the FREE advice that you were given = or you could have even asked me to do it you would have had a fully = functional server many days ago.

Now I would like = to see a retraction of the ill placed comments that you have made about = me.
 
Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane = Software
AUSTRALIA
webdna@plsoftware.com.au







--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55= Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us


--
Brian Harrington
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millersport Hwy. = Suite 1063
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) 861-2029
www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55= Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55= Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55= Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55= Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55= Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55= Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us


--
Brian = Harrington
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) = 861-2029
www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us<Screen = Shot 2019-10-01 at 1.36.01 AM.png><Screen Shot 2019-10-01 at 1.36.16 = AM.png>

= --------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us --Apple-Mail=_04A7AA30-B258-4A69-A66B-BB1F46403085-- . Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:

    
  1. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  2. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  3. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  4. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Bob Minor 2019)
  5. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  6. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  7. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  8. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Stuart Tremain 2019)
  9. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  10. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Stuart Tremain 2019)
  11. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  12. RE: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington ("Scott @ Itsula" 2019)
  13. RE: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington ("Scott @ Itsula" 2019)
  14. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  15. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  16. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  17. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  18. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Donovan Brooke 2019)
  19. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Bob Minor 2019)
  20. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  21. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  22. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  23. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  24. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  25. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  26. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  27. RE: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington ("Scott @ Itsula" 2019)
  28. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  29. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (H - Powerpalle 2019)
  30. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Bob Minor 2019)
  31. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Donovan Brooke 2019)
  32. [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Stuart Tremain 2019)
2482 --Apple-Mail=_04A7AA30-B258-4A69-A66B-BB1F46403085 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hey Brian - that is really weird. I have never tried multiple ethernet = connections on the same address because I just assumed that it = couldn=E2=80=99t possibly work that way. One of the best things about cloud hosting is never ever having to think = about that sort of stuff again. Ever. Every diol of hardware is = configured redundantly. As soon as a data center gets a new server = blade installed into a rack, its components - RAM, CPU, disk, etc., are = inventoried and optimally distributed to that company=E2=80=99s = customers. There is no relationship between what server specs I buy and = any specific machines in the data center. Everything is abstracted so = that anything can fail without interrupting any services. It gets pretty = confusing but products like vSphere are what data centers use to manage = their equipment. That system just tells them how much additional CPU, = RAM & disk they need to keep up with current load and they can also buy = in bulk from Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc., if they need quick = additional capacity while they wait for delivery of physical equipment. The other thing I learned by using WordPress is that WebDNA developers = operate at a fraction of the typical website load that other content = management systems typically use. Because WordPress comes with a back = end & pre-packaged code for themes & plugins, it really =E2=80=9Cshits = the bed=E2=80=9D in terms of cookies, variables, threads, and endless = cruft just to be able to keep track of everything. PHP settings usually = require a minimum of 2500 page variables and timeouts in excess of 180 = seconds. WordPress is a resource hog many thousands of times larger = than WebDAN simply because WebDNA is just a blinking cursor. There is = no environment for themes, plugins, and there is no content management = back end at all. You have to build all of that from scratch. I say get rid of any responsibilities you can - especially hosting. If = WordPress can spin up a presentable website in a few clicks, complete = with back end content management interface and unique theme, then there = ought to be a relatively straight forward way to add WebDNA to that = environment so that we can build any unique functions using WebDNA = syntax and have those functions appear wherever needed within WordPress = (or, ultimately any other) CMS. I don=E2=80=99t know why or how Mac can assign the same IP to 2 = different physical ports, but I wouldn=E2=80=99t want my clients = websites running on top of a mystery, if I can avoid it. In my case, if = I felt that anything was operating slowly, I would just send a tech = support ticket saying =E2=80=9Cit seems too slow=E2=80=9D and let them = figure it out. I=E2=80=99m done deciphering back end spooky nonsense = when there readily available, trained armies who are far better than me = & my Mac. Dumping responsibility makes a more stable server, and that certainly = includes hosting. A managed server is fully redundant, automatically = backed up and even client billings are fully automatic - to the point = where, should a credit card get declined, the timer to automatically = disable hosting goes into effect & that client is notified by email. = The less code I write, the less chance for any problems that I might = cause. THere=E2=80=99s a huge war chest of pre-build & fully tested = code available from places like GitHub. Those represent all the people = who have encountered and solved the same problems I=E2=80=99ve run into, = but they solved it with an entire group of contributors, any one of = which are probably smarter than me. Don=E2=80=99t I owe the best = possible solutions to my clients? Then why would I screw up my = responsibility by thinking for a moment that my single mind might hold = the best answers? I=E2=80=99m pretty sure those gangs would crush me = every time. As a programmer, I tend to immediately attack every = challenge with my own code, but that=E2=80=99s a hopelessly egotistic = reaction for which my clients and I will both suffer. The correct = response is the question - =E2=80=9CWho=E2=80=99s already done the best = job of solving this already?=E2=80=9D And ironically, it=E2=80=99s the = same coder=E2=80=99s ego that motivates all those programmers to show = off all that great coding ability in places like GitHub. Think of the = man years of proven, tested, free code that=E2=80=99s just sitting = there, free for the taking. > On Oct 1, 2019, at 12:43 AM, Brian Harrington = wrote: >=20 > I know none of you care what I have to say and some of my ideas are = off the wall... but this might help someone with slow Apache or slow = internet connections. >=20 > My newer (2009) more powerful Mac Pro 12 core 3.46/ 128GM ram/ 4 1TB = SSD's in RAID seemed to have fast speedtest but Apache still took about = 30 seconds to deliver my web pages > and my older (2008) Mac with about 1/4 the horsepower was always very = quick (instantly)in delivering my web pages until suddenly it's = connection 400/20 will only max out at about 175/20 and took about 30 = seconds or more to deliver web pages. I tried every config on my router = and network settings and even tried 2 ethernet connections (different = ip's) and still slow page loads. And just now I accidentally had my two = ethernet connections at the same DHCP 192.168.0.2 and it cut the page = loads into less than half... Not sure if it matters but the remote DNS = are reversed on the 2 connections... images attached. >=20 > It also might create a very little Redundancy if one ethernet port = should fail... attached images.=20 >=20 > Note: Deleted my Digital Ocean account as page loads the few times my = sites were working there are about the same as my home connection now = and building site via FTP is a pain and slow... >=20 > On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 8:51 PM Stuart Tremain = > wrote: > Hi Patrick >=20 > Unfortunately you can=E2=80=99t rely on the WebDNA url(s) being = current. >=20 > We have found recently that there is an Apache config that needs to be = put into an override file, none of this is included in the WebDNA Server = edition installers. >=20 > If you want to make this happen I would concentrate on the fcgi = version as this is designed to be relevant to the domain root rather = than servicing the entire machine, so in keeping with the cPanel = concept. A user would install WebDNA or PHP (not both), that is where = WebDNA needs to go to widen the use of the language. Getting in peoples = faces is the way to go, curious users would then at least look into the = language and hopefully give it a go. >=20 > I can=E2=80=99t see why it could not be achieved, but then I have = never done anything more than use cPanel as a user. >=20 > I would really like to see this happen. >=20 > Patrick it may be more appropriate to change this subject to cPanel & = WebDNA >=20 > Kind regards >=20 > Stuart Tremain > Pharoah Lane Software > AUSTRALIA > webdna@plsoftware.com.au >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On 1 Oct 2019, at 10:33, Patrick McCormick > wrote: >>=20 >> Yes, Stuart, >>=20 >> Not only do I have access to the full machine, I have a 24/7 staff = that is willing to help with anything I ask them for. They have been = outstanding. It might work out great. >>=20 >> I know I would probably have to make some sort of configuration = utility for cPanel & make a pretty icon, but cPanle is very well = documented and I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s much more than linking = a cPanel icon to the WebDNA config URL(s), once the software is properly = installed in whatever version of unix. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Sep 30, 2019, at 5:41 PM, Stuart Tremain = > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi Patrick >>>=20 >>> The addition of WebDNA into the app library of cPanel would be a = great boost for WebDNA.. >>>=20 >>> Many years ago I shopped around different hosting companies for them = to make WebDNA available on their cPanel configs - none were willing. >>>=20 >>> If you have total access to your machine and are familiar with the = OS on the machine and the workings of cPanel then it would be a = worthwhile exercise to get it going. Your best bet on getting help to = achieve this would be a cPanel support group as I am pretty sure that = there is no-one using WebDNA on cPanel. >>>=20 >>> Long term it would be beneficial to everyone and the WebDNA language = to have WebDNA installed via cPanel. >>>=20 >>> I for one would be very interested in what you can achieve. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Kind regards >>>=20 >>> Stuart Tremain >>> Pharoah Lane Software >>> AUSTRALIA >>> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 1 Oct 2019, at 05:06, Patrick McCormick = > wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> I recently upgraded a server at the hosting company I=E2=80=99ve = been using: futurehosting.com >>>>=20 >>>> I have a dedicated machine, second from the max size. In addition = to cPanel, that level of contract includes WHM, which is an = administration level that allows me to resell cPanel accounts. I would = like to try to get a working cPanel installation of WebDNA onto this = machine to be used by anyone on this list to install WebDNA into any = cPanel hosting environment. =20 >>>>=20 >>>> If I can get WebDNA functioning on this server, I will provide = hosting for redistribution for the fresh installation of cPanel & WebDNA = for anyone needing it for a cPanel hosting company. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On Sep 29, 2019, at 8:56 PM, Donovan Brooke > wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hey Brian... I think the gist is, it is great that you are using = WebDNA. The list is here to try and help. Unfortunately, the users here = don=E2=80=99t always have the the time / resources to help. Don=E2=80=99t = hold that against them. Stuart is a one of a very few champions of = WebDNA. He deserves the respect that goes with that.=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> In short... us long-time members will always try to help if we = can. Just don=E2=80=99t F with us. We have been through a lot ;-) >>>>>=20 >>>>> Cheers. >>>>> Donovan=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> D. Brooke Mobile >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Sep 29, 2019, at 4:09 PM, Brian Harrington = > wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> FYI I NEVER MENTIONED YOUR NAME OR U WERE THE ONE HELPING ME! = THEY ALL ASSUMED THAT I'M SURE CUZ U ALL SO CLOSE... AND BTW YES I WAS = PLANNING ON DOING SOMETHING TO REPAY YOU FOR "HELPING" ME! AND I'M SURE = IF YOU REVIEW ALL YOUR NOTES I SAID THANK YOU MANY TIMES! AND I HOPE = WHAT I DID TO MAKE MY LIFE EASIER ON THE FILE PATH ISSUE HELPS OTHERS!!! >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:58 PM Stuart Tremain = > wrote: >>>>>> I have really leaned another one of this life's lessons today. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> As any member of this list will may or may not know I have been = an active member of this list for 20+ years. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> During this time I have learned so much about the use of WebDNA = from people such as Ken Grome, Donovan Brooke, and others that have = since moved on. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I have always tried hard to return the favour and as such at = times have gone far and beyond the task of offering help. I have enjoyed = giving back to the community from which my skills have grown. This I = believe is the reason why I have been contracted by WebDNA users from = around the world. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I have seen many users over the years with configuration = problems, in particular the last few weeks with Ubuntu 18.04, hence the = reason why I wrote the instructions a week or so ago on how to set up = WebDNA on a fresh installation of Ubuntu 18.04 - I even went as far as = to provide an image of the same available to anyone that would like it, = all in the hope that WebDNA would become a quick easy solution for = members of this list to implement. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I had a number of people request a copy of this image, none of = whom have taken up the offer. One user requested that I build an image = that anyone could use on any platform. However this is not possible for = cloud servers as each cloud provider has their own flavour of Ubuntu = tuned to their hosting configuration. The instructions that I publish = will work if you follow the steps on any host and/or new Ubuntu 18.0 = installation. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> And then along came Brian Harrington.=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I must preface this with the fact that everything that i have = done for Brian was at no charge, purely a gesture of good will that I = extend to all members of this list. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Brian was unable to log into the Ubuntu 18.04 Droplet that he = created. I offered to meet him on Skype to help him get past his hurdle = - less than a minute later I had connected to the Droplet (a virtual = server) using ssh, Brian had some confusion as to how that was achieved, = and had not received the image that I had shared with him from = DigitalOcean. So to make things easier and so that he didn=E2=80=99t = have to go backwards I simply completed the installation from the = instructions that I had published. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Less than 20 minutes later Brian was the owner of a shiny new = Ubuntu 18.04 server complete with a working installation of WebDNA = server that was only requiring a license number. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> As you will know, if you have read the published instructions, = Webmin is also installed on the Droplet. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> What happened next is purely comical, if I published the emails = that I received and you read the warnings that I provided, plus the = repeated advice that I gave, you would see exactly where Brian=E2=80=99s = problems are. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> =46rom here all Brian needed to do was upload his websites to = /var/www/html and set up his Virtual hosts - at this stage WebDNA was = 100% functional with all the standard file extensions that are installed = with the WebDNA installer. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> As an additional task I set up two Virtual Hosts, one on 80 the = other on 443 with the ssl certificate that he supplied so that he could = have a working reference. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> However Brian had other plans, he wanted to create a new = directory /Library/Websites to be the root directory of his webserver, = remember this is the same person that has had no experience with a Linux = server, he has had experience with a Mac server so I believed that he = had a good sense of being able to manage a Linux Server. Brian didn=E2=80=99= t want to use the installed Webmin, he wanted to do all Apache = configuration by uploading files with FTP however he didn=E2=80=99t have = a FTP client. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Brian, you may remember the Skype message that I sent you = expressing my concern that if you work outside the standard installation = you would break it. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> For the rest of the week I continued to help him, answer his = questions, provide advice. All the time doing my own work that Brian=E2=80= =99s emails were interrupting. As I live in Sydney there were times that = I was not able to answer him immediately due to the 10 hour time = difference. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Then on Friday afternoon (Sydney time) I received yet another = email from Brian - he had locked himself out of his server, yes, I fixed = this for him too, repaired his non-root user with sudo privileges and = advised him that in 19 minutes time I would be leaving for the weekend. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> So it is now Sunday morning in Sydney, I have turned on my = computer this morning after have a =E2=80=98family=E2=80=99 day = yesterday to see the usually quiet WebDNA list dominated by Brian = continuing to have issues with his installation. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> What does surprise me, and leads me to writing this email are = comments pointed to myself by Brian such as: >>>>>> "TalkList members say they will help... then they are GONE and = suddenly don't has access to email or skype???!!! Nothing worse than = someone setting you up to fail...!!!=E2=80=9D >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Brian had a very large VHost file that he moved from his Mac = server to the Linux environment without any alterations. He believes = that it was easier to change the configuration of the Linux/Apache = server than to use search and replace on his VHost file. Brian=E2=80=99s = problems relate directly to Permissions and the relocation of his server = root. I note that Brian has said:=20 >>>>>> " I have no idea why Stuart thinks /Library/Webserver files are = gonna be an issue when apache2.conf list share folder and everything = else.=E2=80=9D, I guess to Brian taking advice from someone that has 23 = operational Ubuntu 18.04 servers really doesn=E2=80=99t make much sense. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> So Brian, if you had followed my advice, you would have been 100% = operational as soon as all your files had been uploaded to the = /var/www/html directory and had their ownership and preferences checked, = and had simply changed the root locations in your vhost configuration = file simply with a search and replace with your text editor. If you = listened to the FREE advice that you were given or you could have even = asked me to do it you would have had a fully functional server many days = ago. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Now I would like to see a retraction of the ill placed comments = that you have made about me. >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Stuart Tremain >>>>>> Pharoah Lane Software >>>>>> AUSTRALIA >>>>>> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> --=20 >>>>>> Brian Harrington >>>>>> Auto Glass Xpress >>>>>> 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 >>>>>> Getzville, NY 14068 >>>>>> (716) 861-2029 >>>>>> www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com = ---------------------------------------= ------------------ This message is sent to you because you are = subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To = unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us = archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us = ------------------------------------------------= --------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the = mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, = E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us > --------------------------------------------------------- This message = is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >=20 > --=20 > Brian Harrington > Auto Glass Xpress > 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 > Getzville, NY 14068 > (716) 861-2029 > www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com = ---------------------------------------= ------------------ This message is sent to you because you are = subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us --Apple-Mail=_04A7AA30-B258-4A69-A66B-BB1F46403085 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hey = Brian - that is really weird.  I have never tried multiple ethernet = connections on the same address because I just assumed that it = couldn=E2=80=99t possibly work that way.

One of the best things about cloud = hosting is never ever having to think about that sort of stuff again. = Ever.  Every diol of hardware is configured redundantly.  As = soon as a data center gets a new server blade installed into a rack, its = components - RAM, CPU, disk, etc., are inventoried and optimally = distributed to that company=E2=80=99s customers.  There is no = relationship between what server specs I buy and any specific machines = in the data center. Everything is abstracted so that anything can fail = without interrupting any services. It gets pretty confusing but products = like vSphere are what data centers use to manage their equipment. =  That system just tells them how much additional CPU, RAM & = disk they need to keep up with current load and they can also buy in = bulk from Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc., if they need quick additional = capacity while they wait for delivery of physical equipment.

The other thing I = learned by using WordPress is that WebDNA developers operate at a = fraction of the typical website load that other content management = systems typically use.  Because WordPress comes with a back end = & pre-packaged code for themes & plugins, it really =E2=80=9Cshits= the bed=E2=80=9D in terms of cookies, variables, threads, and endless = cruft just to be able to keep track of everything.  PHP settings = usually require a minimum of 2500 page variables and timeouts in excess = of 180 seconds.  WordPress is a resource hog many thousands of = times larger than WebDAN simply because WebDNA is just a blinking = cursor.  There is no environment for themes, plugins, and there is = no content management back end at all.  You have to build all of = that from scratch.

I say get rid of any responsibilities you can - especially = hosting.  If WordPress can spin up a presentable website in a few = clicks, complete with back end content management interface and unique = theme, then there ought to be a relatively straight forward way to add = WebDNA to that environment so that we can build any unique functions = using WebDNA syntax and have those functions appear wherever needed = within WordPress (or, ultimately any other) CMS.

I don=E2=80=99t know why or how Mac can = assign the same IP to 2 different physical ports, but I wouldn=E2=80=99t = want my clients websites running on top of a mystery, if I can avoid it. =  In my case, if I felt that anything was operating slowly, I would = just send a tech support ticket saying =E2=80=9Cit seems too slow=E2=80=9D= and let them figure it out. I=E2=80=99m done deciphering back end = spooky nonsense when there readily available, trained armies who are far = better than me & my Mac.

Dumping responsibility makes a more = stable server, and that certainly includes hosting.  A managed = server is fully redundant, automatically backed up and even client = billings are fully automatic - to the point where, should a credit card = get declined, the timer to automatically disable hosting goes into = effect & that client is notified by email.  The less code I = write, the less chance for any problems that I might cause. =  THere=E2=80=99s a huge war chest of pre-build & fully tested = code available from places like GitHub.  Those represent all the = people who have encountered and solved the same problems I=E2=80=99ve = run into, but they solved it with an entire group of contributors, any = one of which are probably smarter than me.  Don=E2=80=99t I owe the = best possible solutions to my clients? Then why would I screw up my = responsibility by thinking for a moment that my single mind might hold = the best answers?  I=E2=80=99m pretty sure those gangs would crush = me every time. As a programmer, I tend to immediately attack every = challenge with my own code, but that=E2=80=99s a hopelessly egotistic = reaction for which my clients and I will both suffer. The correct = response is the question - =E2=80=9CWho=E2=80=99s already done the best = job of solving this already?=E2=80=9D And ironically, it=E2=80=99s the = same coder=E2=80=99s ego that motivates all those programmers to show = off all that great coding ability in places like GitHub. Think of the = man years of proven, tested, free code that=E2=80=99s just sitting = there, free for the taking.




On Oct = 1, 2019, at 12:43 AM, Brian Harrington <autoglasswny@gmail.com> wrote:

I know none of you care what I have to say and some of my = ideas are off the wall... but this might help someone with slow Apache = or slow internet connections.

My newer (2009) more powerful Mac Pro 12 core 3.46/ 128GM = ram/ 4 1TB SSD's in RAID seemed to have fast speedtest but Apache still = took about 30 seconds to deliver my web pages
 and my older (2008) Mac with about 1/4 the horsepower = was always very quick (instantly)in delivering my web pages until = suddenly it's connection 400/20 will only max out at about 175/20 and = took about 30 seconds or more to deliver web pages. I tried every config = on my router and network settings and even tried 2 ethernet connections = (different ip's) and still slow page loads. And just now I = accidentally had my two ethernet connections at the same DHCP = 192.168.0.2 and it cut the page loads into less than half... Not sure if = it matters but the remote DNS are reversed on the 2 connections... = images attached.

It also might create a very little Redundancy if one ethernet port = should fail... attached images. 

Note: Deleted my Digital Ocean account = as page loads the few times my sites were working there are about the = same as my home connection now and building site via FTP is a pain and = slow...

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 8:51 PM Stuart = Tremain <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> wrote:
Hi Patrick

Unfortunately you can=E2=80=99t rely on = the WebDNA url(s) being current.

We have found recently that there is an = Apache config that needs to be put into an override file, none of this = is included in the WebDNA Server edition installers.

If you want to make this = happen I would concentrate on the fcgi version as this is designed to be = relevant to the domain root rather than servicing the entire machine, so = in keeping with the cPanel concept. A user would install WebDNA or PHP = (not both), that is where WebDNA needs to go to widen the use of the = language. Getting in peoples faces is the way to go, curious users would = then at least look into the language and hopefully give it a = go.

I can=E2=80=99= t see why it could not be achieved, but then I have never done anything = more than use cPanel as a user.

I would really like to see this = happen.

Patrick = it may be more appropriate to change this subject to cPanel & = WebDNA

Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane = Software
AUSTRALIA
webdna@plsoftware.com.au







On 1 Oct 2019, at 10:33, Patrick McCormick <duganmccormick@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, Stuart,

Not only do I have access to the full machine, I have a 24/7 = staff that is willing to help with anything I ask them for.  They = have been outstanding.  It might work out great.

I know I would probably = have to make some sort of configuration utility for cPanel & make a = pretty icon, but cPanle is very well documented and I don=E2=80=99t = think it=E2=80=99s much more than linking a cPanel icon to the WebDNA = config URL(s), once the software is properly installed in whatever = version of unix.



On Sep 30, 2019, at 5:41 PM, = Stuart Tremain <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> = wrote:

Hi Patrick

The addition of WebDNA into the app = library of cPanel would be a great boost for WebDNA..

Many years ago I shopped = around different hosting companies for them to make WebDNA available on = their cPanel configs - none were willing.

If you have total access to your = machine and are familiar with the OS on the machine and the workings of = cPanel then it would be a worthwhile exercise to get it going. Your best = bet on getting help to achieve this would be a cPanel support group as I = am pretty sure that there is no-one using WebDNA on cPanel.

Long term it would be = beneficial to everyone and the WebDNA language to have WebDNA installed = via cPanel.

I = for one would be very interested in what you can achieve.


Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane = Software
AUSTRALIA
webdna@plsoftware.com.au







On 1 Oct 2019, at 05:06, Patrick McCormick <duganmccormick@gmail.com> wrote:

I recently upgraded a server at the hosting company I=E2=80=99v= e been using:  futurehosting.com

I have a dedicated machine, second from = the max size.  In addition to cPanel, that level of contract = includes WHM, which is an administration level that allows me to resell = cPanel accounts. I would like to try to get a working cPanel = installation of WebDNA onto this machine to be used by anyone on this = list to install WebDNA into any cPanel hosting environment. =  

If I = can get WebDNA functioning on this server, I will provide hosting for = redistribution for the fresh installation of cPanel & WebDNA for = anyone needing it for a cPanel hosting company.




On Sep 29, 2019, at 8:56 PM, Donovan Brooke = <dbrooke@euca.us> wrote:

Hey Brian... I think the gist = is, it is great that you are using WebDNA. The list is here to try and = help. Unfortunately, the users here don=E2=80=99t always have the the = time / resources to help. Don=E2=80=99t hold that against them. Stuart = is a one of a very few champions of WebDNA. He deserves the respect that = goes with that. 

In short... us long-time members will always try to help if = we can. Just don=E2=80=99t F with us. We have been through a lot = ;-)

Cheers.
Donovan 

D. Brooke = Mobile

On Sep 29, 2019, = at 4:09 PM, Brian Harrington <autoglasswny@gmail.com> wrote:

FYI I NEVER MENTIONED = YOUR NAME OR U WERE THE ONE HELPING ME! THEY ALL ASSUMED THAT I'M SURE = CUZ U ALL SO CLOSE... AND BTW YES I WAS PLANNING ON DOING SOMETHING TO = REPAY YOU FOR "HELPING" ME! AND I'M SURE IF YOU REVIEW ALL YOUR NOTES I = SAID THANK YOU MANY TIMES! AND I HOPE WHAT I DID TO MAKE MY LIFE EASIER = ON THE FILE PATH ISSUE HELPS OTHERS!!!

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:58 PM Stuart Tremain = <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> wrote:
I have really leaned = another one of this life's lessons today.

As any member of this list will may or = may not know I have been an active member of this list for 20+ = years.

During = this time I have learned so much about the use of WebDNA from people = such as Ken Grome, Donovan Brooke, and others that have since moved = on.

I have = always tried hard to return the favour and as such at times have gone = far and beyond the task of offering help. I have enjoyed giving back to = the community from which my skills have grown. This I believe is the = reason why I have been contracted by WebDNA users from around the = world.

I have = seen many users over the years with configuration problems, in = particular the last few weeks with Ubuntu 18.04, hence the reason why I = wrote the instructions a week or so ago on how to set up WebDNA on a = fresh installation of Ubuntu 18.04 - I even went as far as to provide an = image of the same available to anyone that would like it, all in the = hope that WebDNA would become a quick easy solution for members of this = list to implement.

I had a number of people request a copy of this image, none = of whom have taken up the offer. One user requested that I build an = image that anyone could use on any platform. However this is not = possible for cloud servers as each cloud provider has their own flavour = of Ubuntu tuned to their hosting configuration. The instructions that I = publish will work if you follow the steps on any host and/or new Ubuntu = 18.0 installation.

And then along came Brian Harrington. 

I must preface this with = the fact that everything that i have done for Brian was at no charge, = purely a gesture of good will that I extend to all members of this = list.

Brian = was unable to log into the Ubuntu 18.04 Droplet that he created. I = offered to meet him on Skype to help him get past his hurdle - less than = a minute later I had connected to the Droplet (a virtual server) using = ssh, Brian had some confusion as to how that was achieved, and had not = received the image that I had shared with him from DigitalOcean. So to = make things easier and so that he didn=E2=80=99t have to go backwards I = simply completed the installation from the instructions that I had = published.

Less = than 20 minutes later Brian was the owner of a shiny new Ubuntu 18.04 = server complete with a working installation of WebDNA server that was = only requiring a license number.

As you will know, if you have read the = published instructions, Webmin is also installed on the = Droplet.

What = happened next is purely comical, if I published the emails that I = received and you read the warnings that I provided, plus the repeated = advice that I gave,  you would see exactly where Brian=E2=80=99s = problems are.

=46rom here all Brian needed to do was upload his websites to = /var/www/html and set up his Virtual hosts - at this stage WebDNA was = 100% functional with all the standard file extensions that are installed = with the WebDNA installer.

As an additional task I set up two Virtual Hosts, one on 80 = the other on 443 with the ssl certificate that he supplied so that he = could have a working reference.

However Brian had other plans, he = wanted to create a new directory /Library/Websites to be the root = directory of his webserver, remember this is the same person that has = had no experience with a Linux server, he has had experience with a Mac = server so I believed that he had a good sense of being able to manage a = Linux Server. Brian didn=E2=80=99t want to use the installed Webmin, he = wanted to do all Apache configuration by uploading files with FTP = however he didn=E2=80=99t have a FTP client.

Brian, you may remember the Skype = message that I sent you expressing my concern that if you work outside = the standard installation you would break it.

For the rest of the week I continued to = help him, answer his questions, provide advice. All the time doing my = own work that Brian=E2=80=99s emails were interrupting. As I live in = Sydney there were times that I was not able to answer him immediately = due to the 10 hour time difference.

Then on Friday afternoon (Sydney time) = I received yet another email from Brian - he had locked himself out of = his server, yes, I fixed this for him too, repaired his non-root user = with sudo privileges and advised him that in 19 minutes time I would be = leaving for the weekend.

So it is now Sunday morning in Sydney, I have turned on my = computer this morning after have a =E2=80=98family=E2=80=99 day = yesterday to see the usually quiet WebDNA list dominated by Brian = continuing to have issues with his installation.

What does surprise me, and leads me to = writing this email are comments pointed to myself by Brian such = as:
"TalkList = members say they will help... then they are GONE and suddenly don't has = access to email or skype???!!! Nothing worse than someone setting you up = to fail...!!!=E2=80=9D

Brian had a very large VHost file that he = moved from his Mac server to the Linux environment without any = alterations. He believes that it was easier to change the configuration = of the Linux/Apache server than to use search and replace on his VHost = file. Brian=E2=80=99s problems relate directly to Permissions and the = relocation of his server root. I note that Brian has = said: 
" I have no idea why Stuart thinks = /Library/Webserver files are gonna be an issue when apache2.conf list = share folder and everything else.=E2=80=9D, I guess to Brian taking = advice from someone that has 23 operational Ubuntu 18.04 servers = really doesn=E2=80=99t make much sense.

So= Brian, if you had followed my advice, you would have been 100% = operational as soon as all your files had been uploaded to the = /var/www/html directory and had their ownership and preferences = checked, and had simply changed the root locations in = your vhost configuration file simply with a search and replace with = your text editor. If you listened to the FREE advice that you were given = or you could have even asked me to do it you would have had a fully = functional server many days ago.

Now I would like = to see a retraction of the ill placed comments that you have made about = me.
 
Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane = Software
AUSTRALIA
webdna@plsoftware.com.au







--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55= Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us


--
Brian Harrington
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millersport Hwy. = Suite 1063
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) 861-2029
www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55= Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55= Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55= Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55= Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55= Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55= Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us


--
Brian = Harrington
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) = 861-2029
www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us<Screen = Shot 2019-10-01 at 1.36.01 AM.png><Screen Shot 2019-10-01 at 1.36.16 = AM.png>

= --------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us --Apple-Mail=_04A7AA30-B258-4A69-A66B-BB1F46403085-- . Patrick McCormick

DOWNLOAD WEBDNA NOW!

Top Articles:

Talk List

The WebDNA community talk-list is the best place to get some help: several hundred extremely proficient programmers with an excellent knowledge of WebDNA and an excellent spirit will deliver all the tips and tricks you can imagine...

Related Readings:

User/pass with tcpconnect (2000) WC 2.0 frames feature (1997) Overridding E-Mailer (1998) [OT] WebCat Programmer Wanted (NJ) (1999) with Link i need to (1997) 2.0.1 new commands and contexts (1997) Am I going senile? (Price recalc based on quantity) (1997) International Orders (1998) [BULK] [WebDNA] Candidate versions release (2010) Webcat 3.0.5b9, b8 trigger failures ON WEBSTAR (1999) Database changes (1998) OH MY GOD! (1998) How to Display text in empty fields (1997) 'does not contain' operator needed ... (1997) Stop the madness. (1997) Searching for words equal to A or equal to B (1999) Questions (1998) Banner Ad Server Solutions Using WEbDNA (2000) Searching multiple fields (1997) Card clearance, problems - solutions? (1997)