Re: Here we go again...WebDNA - SQL- Clustering
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2006
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 66717
interpreted = N
texte = Let's put it in simple word: Once you start using SQL syntax and use some of the languages ver= y own features like JOIN or UNION you simply won't go back to use= flat files. Instead of using a search within a search and then a lookup withi= n that founditems (all true real world examples) and you see how=20= easy this is done with ONE SQL statement it should start making s= ense to everyone :-) It just open up a new world of possibilities. Imagine you have on= e single location for all your data and that location does not ev= en has to be in house. That other systems can connect to it as we= ll is a life saver sometimes. Now when you start with stored procedures you have another story=20= where your database does all the work for you and not the webserv= er anymore... I don't think this is a conversation of the scripting language bu= t more why to use SQL. Nitai -- eContentPark - Enterprise Digital Asset Management eServices - The complete SupportSuite eSurvey - Online Questionnaire made easy Redakto CMS - Content Management that simply works ComputerOil=C2=AE AG Neugutstrasse 66 8600 D=C3=BCbendorf / Switzerland Telefon +41 (0)844 44 55 66 info@computeroil.com http://computeroil.com > -----Original Message----- > From: WebDNA Talk [mailto:WebDNA-Talk@talk.smithmicro.com] On B= ehalf Of > Alex McCombie > Sent: Dienstag, 4. April 2006 05:45 > To: WebDNA Talk > Subject: Re: Here we go again...WebDNA - SQL- Clustering > > Lol the funny thing everyone is so passionately debating the We= bDNA tables > VS. SQL like they are sworn enemies. > > Let me help (I hope) -- They work together. VERY WELL. > > I spent years on WebDNA. Besides Bob and Ken and a few others I= would > wager > that have been on here as long as anyone. Long long long time := -) > > Truth is I still use DNA flat files. And I also use the table t= ag to > temporarily store MSSQL data returns for recursive (RAM) search= ing. > > I use both. In the same page of code. And again, it works very=20= very well > :-) > > Why MSSQL? Well, there are lots of reasons. A few of them that=20= come to > mind > are > > Transactional Logging. There have been times when we needed to=20= go to > backups > and then rebuild all the data structure through time. Rare but=20= it has > happened. > > Multiple points of entry and exit. I use it in an environment w= here there > are asp pages, php pages, Access Apps, and TPL pages and they a= ll need to > manipulate the same data in REAL TIME. And no the data dumping,= > import/exporting of data in bulk to be "semi-realtime" is not a= cceptable. > With DNA/MSSQL this is a snap. How much extra code is needed fo= r this? Um, > none. > > True data warehousing as well as multiple front end servers hit= ting the > same > data. Across the network or across the web it all doable. Again= in real > time. > > > Why MSSQL instead of MySQL? Well mostly because its a MS shop.=20= Gotta work > within the system. Frankly, if the tests all hold up it seems t= hat the > syntax is identical if you hit MySQL with ODBC instead of the N= ative DNA > MySQL tags. Why is this so important? Well when your sitting th= ere > debugging > and need to hit the SQL server with your search in Query Analyz= er its a > lot > better when all you have to do is copy and paste your SQL tag w= hich would > not work with the native tags (best I can tell). > > Huge data sets DO suffer from the undefined nature of WebDNA ta= bles. > Anyone > doing large text searches on the two can attest. It also suffer= s from no > field definition when doing date searches and math. > > Lets not forget about the join context instead of recursive sea= rching! The > ability to group across multiple tables with doing recursive se= arching in > a > FI loop will start making a HUGE difference on large data sets.= > > > Don't get me wrong guys. I use WebDNA every single day for some= pretty > in-depth tools (one rolling out to schools across NY soon). For= the most > part now, we use DNA as the front end to MSSQL. We still do fla= t files > resident in DNA, and also will be doing MySQL (through ODBC soo= n). So I > don't see it as a either or. Integrating SQL tags was a critica= l maneuver > on > the part of SMSI... If only it had come with marketing ;-) > > > > > > > On 4/3/06 11:12 PM, "Bob Minor"
wrote: > > > Good thinking, why don't they build all cars to handle pullin= g a load > > like a tractor trailer I mean surely we will all need to pull= a bunch > > of stuff one day! Or hey why not build all cars like a porsch= e > > carrera gt, I mean we are all going to need to go fast someda= y. That > > is not to say that you don't build for the future but you don= 't put > > money into something that may NEVER happen. You can build wha= t you > > want for a fraction of the cost so that you can one day rebui= ld when > > you need to. You really think they built ebay from scratch th= e way it > > is today, sorry it was an evolution. > > > > The right tool for the right job is the right thing! > > > > On Apr 3, 2006, at 5:58 PM, Adam O'Connor wrote: > > > >> In this scenario, webcat would be quite distinguished. > >> > >> I know these examples are large, but really, if you are goin= g to > >> devote time and effort with a webdev platform, why not ensur= e it > >> can handle what the others are capable of handling. > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------= > > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > > the mailing list . > > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > > To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to > > > > Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/= > > -- > Alex J McCombie ~ Alex@Adventureskies.com p:315~233~9403 > Adventure Skies Interactive (ASI) > "You can find it all under Adventure Skies" > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to digest@talk.smithmicro.com> > Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
Let's put it in simple word: Once you start using SQL syntax and use some of the languages ver= y own features like JOIN or UNION you simply won't go back to use= flat files. Instead of using a search within a search and then a lookup withi= n that founditems (all true real world examples) and you see how=20= easy this is done with ONE SQL statement it should start making s= ense to everyone :-) It just open up a new world of possibilities. Imagine you have on= e single location for all your data and that location does not ev= en has to be in house. That other systems can connect to it as we= ll is a life saver sometimes. Now when you start with stored procedures you have another story=20= where your database does all the work for you and not the webserv= er anymore... I don't think this is a conversation of the scripting language bu= t more why to use SQL. Nitai -- eContentPark - Enterprise Digital Asset Management eServices - The complete SupportSuite eSurvey - Online Questionnaire made easy Redakto CMS - Content Management that simply works ComputerOil=C2=AE AG Neugutstrasse 66 8600 D=C3=BCbendorf / Switzerland Telefon +41 (0)844 44 55 66 info@computeroil.com http://computeroil.com > -----Original Message----- > From: WebDNA Talk [mailto:WebDNA-Talk@talk.smithmicro.com] On B= ehalf Of > Alex McCombie > Sent: Dienstag, 4. April 2006 05:45 > To: WebDNA Talk > Subject: Re: Here we go again...WebDNA - SQL- Clustering > > Lol the funny thing everyone is so passionately debating the We= bDNA tables > VS. SQL like they are sworn enemies. > > Let me help (I hope) -- They work together. VERY WELL. > > I spent years on WebDNA. Besides Bob and Ken and a few others I= would > wager > that have been on here as long as anyone. Long long long time := -) > > Truth is I still use DNA flat files. And I also use the table t= ag to > temporarily store MSSQL data returns for recursive (RAM) search= ing. > > I use both. In the same page of code. And again, it works very=20= very well > :-) > > Why MSSQL? Well, there are lots of reasons. A few of them that=20= come to > mind > are > > Transactional Logging. There have been times when we needed to=20= go to > backups > and then rebuild all the data structure through time. Rare but=20= it has > happened. > > Multiple points of entry and exit. I use it in an environment w= here there > are asp pages, php pages, Access Apps, and TPL pages and they a= ll need to > manipulate the same data in REAL TIME. And no the data dumping,= > import/exporting of data in bulk to be "semi-realtime" is not a= cceptable. > With DNA/MSSQL this is a snap. How much extra code is needed fo= r this? Um, > none. > > True data warehousing as well as multiple front end servers hit= ting the > same > data. Across the network or across the web it all doable. Again= in real > time. > > > Why MSSQL instead of MySQL? Well mostly because its a MS shop.=20= Gotta work > within the system. Frankly, if the tests all hold up it seems t= hat the > syntax is identical if you hit MySQL with ODBC instead of the N= ative DNA > MySQL tags. Why is this so important? Well when your sitting th= ere > debugging > and need to hit the SQL server with your search in Query Analyz= er its a > lot > better when all you have to do is copy and paste your SQL tag w= hich would > not work with the native tags (best I can tell). > > Huge data sets DO suffer from the undefined nature of WebDNA ta= bles. > Anyone > doing large text searches on the two can attest. It also suffer= s from no > field definition when doing date searches and math. > > Lets not forget about the join context instead of recursive sea= rching! The > ability to group across multiple tables with doing recursive se= arching in > a > FI loop will start making a HUGE difference on large data sets.= > > > Don't get me wrong guys. I use WebDNA every single day for some= pretty > in-depth tools (one rolling out to schools across NY soon). For= the most > part now, we use DNA as the front end to MSSQL. We still do fla= t files > resident in DNA, and also will be doing MySQL (through ODBC soo= n). So I > don't see it as a either or. Integrating SQL tags was a critica= l maneuver > on > the part of SMSI... If only it had come with marketing ;-) > > > > > > > On 4/3/06 11:12 PM, "Bob Minor" wrote: > > > Good thinking, why don't they build all cars to handle pullin= g a load > > like a tractor trailer I mean surely we will all need to pull= a bunch > > of stuff one day! Or hey why not build all cars like a porsch= e > > carrera gt, I mean we are all going to need to go fast someda= y. That > > is not to say that you don't build for the future but you don= 't put > > money into something that may NEVER happen. You can build wha= t you > > want for a fraction of the cost so that you can one day rebui= ld when > > you need to. You really think they built ebay from scratch th= e way it > > is today, sorry it was an evolution. > > > > The right tool for the right job is the right thing! > > > > On Apr 3, 2006, at 5:58 PM, Adam O'Connor wrote: > > > >> In this scenario, webcat would be quite distinguished. > >> > >> I know these examples are large, but really, if you are goin= g to > >> devote time and effort with a webdev platform, why not ensur= e it > >> can handle what the others are capable of handling. > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------= > > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > > the mailing list . > > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > > To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to > > > > Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/= > > -- > Alex J McCombie ~ Alex@Adventureskies.com p:315~233~9403 > Adventure Skies Interactive (ASI) > "You can find it all under Adventure Skies" > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to digest@talk.smithmicro.com> > Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/
nitai@computeroil.com
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