Re: [WebDNA] Mass email using WebDNA
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2008
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 100854
interpreted = N
texte = I can confirm this issue and have direct experience with it. Here's what I know: - My hardware was RedHat ES4 on a dual Xeon server. - I had 2 separate SendMail applications on the same server and both experienced the problem. - The system would work fine for a month or more and then suddenly it would get stuck on a single email and spin out of control. - The runaway email would actually send many more times than the 10 ticks per minute. - If I stopped and restarted the WebCatalog deamon the runnaway email would not stop, I needed to reboot the machine. - The problem only seemed to happen on my one server, and I never figured out the issue. Through a bit of detective work over the years I have discovered something about the internal timing of the WebDNA deamon that might help the new developers track this issue down, because my feeling is there's more too it than we realize. While fighting with intermittent Triggers about 2 years ago I needed to create a way to be notified when a Trigger would fire. So I added a simple [sendmail] with a [date] [time] that would notify me when the Trigger correctly processed. To my surprise when the Triggers malfunctioned they would either fire and rest themselves to some future date, or they would fire and set themselves to the current date but with a time of 15:45:52. Once set to this magic time of 3:42pm and 52 seconds the Trigger would fire wildly out of control and I would get 80 or more emails with the same time stamp. Now, I'm not talking about 1 email that got stuck in the EMailFolder, I'm actually talking about 80 or more actual email files that would be written to the EMailFolder _In_A_Single_Second_. I can readily reproduce this condition if the new developers would like access to see this issue. My feeling is that the background deamon sometimes goes out of control, weather with Triggers or with sending emails. Since both are related to the background processing of the deamon it stands to reason they might be caused by the same "misplaced semi-colon" somewhere in the C code. Thankfully it's easier to correct the Trigger problem with layers of additional conditional testing. As for the [sendmail] problem I give my users a Submit button and tell them to submit 20 emails at a time, to a max of 100 emails in the queue. I tell them to monitor the screen and when they see the queue go down to under 20 they can submit another 100. This is a poor method of sending emails but most of them only send a few hundred emails a week anyway. Since I gave them this instructions I have not had any problems. My hope was always that the bug will be found before I need to offer my messaging system to someone in need of bulk 3000 emails. Matthew A Perosi | Psi Prime, Inc. | http://www.psiprime.com | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psi_Prime%2C_Inc | 323 Union Blvd. | Totowa, NJ 07512 | P: 973.413.8210 | F: 973.413.8217 | Stuart Tremain wrote: > Chris > > The emails are generally short reminder messages, no more than 100 words. > > I had tried changing the ticks to a very slow rate but still no 100% > solution > > I had tried sending to SMTP servers on the same machine/same > network/different network everything imaginable so I can not blame the > SMTP server. > > The only common instance is the WebDNA engine picking up the file and > sending it to the SMTP. > > Regards > > Stuart Tremain > IDFK Web Developments > AUSTRALIA > webdna@idfk.com.au > > > > > On 19/09/2008, at 10:00 AM, Christophe Billiottet wrote: > >> Could it be that the process that removes the mail from EMailFolder/ >> and move it to EMailCompleted/ be too slow for the tick? my guess is >> the email is a large one and WebDNA will send it again and again >> before having the chance to move it. There is a mechanism that >> "locks" the mail while it is sent to prevent WebDNA to move it too fast. >> >> - chris >> >> >> On Sep 18, 2008, at 20:34, Stuart Tremain wrote: >> >>> I have had a few systems that send bulk emails using WebDNA however >>> have run into BIG problems. >>> >>> The problem that arises (spam and all that stuff aside) is that >>> sometimes one or two people in a mailing receive the email 60-80-100 >>> times. The logs show only one instance being sent, I have tried >>> using different SMTP gateways but keep coming back to the ONE common >>> factor - WebDNA. My gut feeling is that there is a "bug" (?) in the >>> process that sends the email to the SMTP server. After trying to >>> sort out this problem with one client over a period of 3 years we >>> have finally dumped the WebDNA solution. >>> >>> One of the Network Managers with my client noted that they had the >>> same problem when they were using SendMail on Linux, I wonder if the >>> engine in WebDNA has been borrowed from SendMail and therefore >>> inheriting the problem. >>> >>> All my problems have been on Windows 2003 server platform. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Stuart Tremain >>> IDFK Web Developments >>> AUSTRALIA >>> webdna@idfk.com.au >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 18/09/2008, at 6:47 PM, Tom Duke wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I need to upgrade a mass email tool that I have built for a >>>> client. They are currently mailing to a list of about 7000. I was >>>> wondering if anyone else has built such a tool? >>>> >>>> Things I need to code in to the upgrade are: >>>> >>>> - the ability to mail to a list of up 400000 >>>> - the ability to track open rates for the email >>>> - some method of handling email bounces >>>> >>>> I figure I need to decide whether WebDNA can do all this or whether >>>> I need to look at something else like phpList. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> - Tom >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >>> the mailing list
. >>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >>> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ >> > > --------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us > old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ > >
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
I can confirm this issue and have direct experience with it. Here's what I know: - My hardware was RedHat ES4 on a dual Xeon server. - I had 2 separate SendMail applications on the same server and both experienced the problem. - The system would work fine for a month or more and then suddenly it would get stuck on a single email and spin out of control. - The runaway email would actually send many more times than the 10 ticks per minute. - If I stopped and restarted the WebCatalog deamon the runnaway email would not stop, I needed to reboot the machine. - The problem only seemed to happen on my one server, and I never figured out the issue. Through a bit of detective work over the years I have discovered something about the internal timing of the WebDNA deamon that might help the new developers track this issue down, because my feeling is there's more too it than we realize. While fighting with intermittent triggers about 2 years ago I needed to create a way to be notified when a Trigger would fire. So I added a simple [sendmail] with a [date] [time] that would notify me when the Trigger correctly processed. To my surprise when the triggers malfunctioned they would either fire and rest themselves to some future date, or they would fire and set themselves to the current date but with a time of 15:45:52. Once set to this magic time of 3:42pm and 52 seconds the Trigger would fire wildly out of control and I would get 80 or more emails with the same time stamp. Now, I'm not talking about 1 email that got stuck in the EMailFolder, I'm actually talking about 80 or more actual email files that would be written to the EMailFolder _In_A_Single_Second_. I can readily reproduce this condition if the new developers would like access to see this issue. My feeling is that the background deamon sometimes goes out of control, weather with triggers or with sending emails. Since both are related to the background processing of the deamon it stands to reason they might be caused by the same "misplaced semi-colon" somewhere in the C code. Thankfully it's easier to correct the Trigger problem with layers of additional conditional testing. As for the [sendmail] problem I give my users a Submit button and tell them to submit 20 emails at a time, to a max of 100 emails in the queue. I tell them to monitor the screen and when they see the queue go down to under 20 they can submit another 100. This is a poor method of sending emails but most of them only send a few hundred emails a week anyway. Since I gave them this instructions I have not had any problems. My hope was always that the bug will be found before I need to offer my messaging system to someone in need of bulk 3000 emails. Matthew A Perosi | Psi Prime, Inc. | http://www.psiprime.com | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psi_Prime%2C_Inc | 323 Union Blvd. | Totowa, NJ 07512 | P: 973.413.8210 | F: 973.413.8217 | Stuart Tremain wrote: > Chris > > The emails are generally short reminder messages, no more than 100 words. > > I had tried changing the ticks to a very slow rate but still no 100% > solution > > I had tried sending to SMTP servers on the same machine/same > network/different network everything imaginable so I can not blame the > SMTP server. > > The only common instance is the WebDNA engine picking up the file and > sending it to the SMTP. > > Regards > > Stuart Tremain > IDFK Web Developments > AUSTRALIA > webdna@idfk.com.au > > > > > On 19/09/2008, at 10:00 AM, Christophe Billiottet wrote: > >> Could it be that the process that removes the mail from EMailFolder/ >> and move it to EMailCompleted/ be too slow for the tick? my guess is >> the email is a large one and WebDNA will send it again and again >> before having the chance to move it. There is a mechanism that >> "locks" the mail while it is sent to prevent WebDNA to move it too fast. >> >> - chris >> >> >> On Sep 18, 2008, at 20:34, Stuart Tremain wrote: >> >>> I have had a few systems that send bulk emails using WebDNA however >>> have run into BIG problems. >>> >>> The problem that arises (spam and all that stuff aside) is that >>> sometimes one or two people in a mailing receive the email 60-80-100 >>> times. The logs show only one instance being sent, I have tried >>> using different SMTP gateways but keep coming back to the ONE common >>> factor - WebDNA. My gut feeling is that there is a "bug" (?) in the >>> process that sends the email to the SMTP server. After trying to >>> sort out this problem with one client over a period of 3 years we >>> have finally dumped the WebDNA solution. >>> >>> One of the Network Managers with my client noted that they had the >>> same problem when they were using SendMail on Linux, I wonder if the >>> engine in WebDNA has been borrowed from SendMail and therefore >>> inheriting the problem. >>> >>> All my problems have been on Windows 2003 server platform. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Stuart Tremain >>> IDFK Web Developments >>> AUSTRALIA >>> webdna@idfk.com.au >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 18/09/2008, at 6:47 PM, Tom Duke wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I need to upgrade a mass email tool that I have built for a >>>> client. They are currently mailing to a list of about 7000. I was >>>> wondering if anyone else has built such a tool? >>>> >>>> Things I need to code in to the upgrade are: >>>> >>>> - the ability to mail to a list of up 400000 >>>> - the ability to track open rates for the email >>>> - some method of handling email bounces >>>> >>>> I figure I need to decide whether WebDNA can do all this or whether >>>> I need to look at something else like phpList. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> - Tom >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >>> the mailing list . >>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >>> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ >> > > --------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us > old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ > >
"Psi Prime, Matthew A Perosi "
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