Re: [WebDNA] Mass email using WebDNA
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2008
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 100858
interpreted = N
texte = Thankfully I am not alone on this, it has driven me mad for years and in the end has lost me countless hours because I could not fix/explain it. Donovan, please check it out!!! Regards Stuart Tremain IDFK Web Developments AUSTRALIA webdna@idfk.com.au On 19/09/2008, at 11:54 AM, Psi Prime, Matthew A Perosi wrote: > I can confirm this issue and have direct experience with it. > > Here's what I know: > - My hardware was RedHat ES4 on a dual Xeon server. > - I had 2 separate SendMail applications on the same server and both > experienced the problem. > - The system would work fine for a month or more and then suddenly > it would get stuck on a single email and spin out of control. > - The runaway email would actually send many more times than the 10 > ticks per minute. > - If I stopped and restarted the WebCatalog deamon the runnaway > email would not stop, I needed to reboot the machine. > - The problem only seemed to happen on my one server, and I never > figured out the issue. > > Through a bit of detective work over the years I have discovered > something about the internal timing of the WebDNA deamon that might > help the new developers track this issue down, because my feeling is > there's more too it than we realize. > > While fighting with intermittent Triggers about 2 years ago I needed > to create a way to be notified when a Trigger would fire. So I > added a simple [sendmail] with a [date] [time] that would notify me > when the Trigger correctly processed. > > To my surprise when the Triggers malfunctioned they would either > fire and rest themselves to some future date, or they would fire and > set themselves to the current date but with a time of 15:45:52. > Once set to this magic time of 3:42pm and 52 seconds the Trigger > would fire wildly out of control and I would get 80 or more emails > with the same time stamp. > Now, I'm not talking about 1 email that got stuck in the > EMailFolder, I'm actually talking about 80 or more actual email > files that would be written to the EMailFolder > _In_A_Single_Second_. I can readily reproduce this condition if the > new developers would like access to see this issue. > > My feeling is that the background deamon sometimes goes out of > control, weather with Triggers or with sending emails. Since both > are related to the background processing of the deamon it stands to > reason they might be caused by the same "misplaced semi-colon" > somewhere in the C code. > > Thankfully it's easier to correct the Trigger problem with layers of > additional conditional testing. As for the [sendmail] problem I > give my users a Submit button and tell them to submit 20 emails at a > time, to a max of 100 emails in the queue. I tell them to monitor > the screen and when they see the queue go down to under 20 they can > submit another 100. This is a poor method of sending emails but > most of them only send a few hundred emails a week anyway. Since I > gave them this instructions I have not had any problems. > > My hope was always that the bug will be found before I need to offer > my messaging system to someone in need of bulk 3000 emails. > > > Matthew A Perosi | > Psi Prime, Inc. | > http://www.psiprime.com | > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psi_Prime%2C_Inc | > 323 Union Blvd. | > Totowa, NJ 07512 | > P: 973.413.8210 | > F: 973.413.8217 | > > > > Stuart Tremain wrote: >> Chris >> >> The emails are generally short reminder messages, no more than 100 >> words. >> >> I had tried changing the ticks to a very slow rate but still no >> 100% solution >> >> I had tried sending to SMTP servers on the same machine/same >> network/different network everything imaginable so I can not blame >> the SMTP server. >> >> The only common instance is the WebDNA engine picking up the file >> and sending it to the SMTP. >> >> Regards >> >> Stuart Tremain >> IDFK Web Developments >> AUSTRALIA >> webdna@idfk.com.au >> >> >> >> >> On 19/09/2008, at 10:00 AM, Christophe Billiottet wrote: >> >>> Could it be that the process that removes the mail from >>> EMailFolder/ and move it to EMailCompleted/ be too slow for the >>> tick? my guess is the email is a large one and WebDNA will send it >>> again and again before having the chance to move it. There is a >>> mechanism that "locks" the mail while it is sent to prevent WebDNA >>> to move it too fast. >>> >>> - chris >>> >>> >>> On Sep 18, 2008, at 20:34, Stuart Tremain wrote: >>> >>>> I have had a few systems that send bulk emails using WebDNA >>>> however have run into BIG problems. >>>> >>>> The problem that arises (spam and all that stuff aside) is that >>>> sometimes one or two people in a mailing receive the email >>>> 60-80-100 times. The logs show only one instance being sent, I >>>> have tried using different SMTP gateways but keep coming back to >>>> the ONE common factor - WebDNA. My gut feeling is that there is a >>>> "bug" (?) in the process that sends the email to the SMTP server. >>>> After trying to sort out this problem with one client over a >>>> period of 3 years we have finally dumped the WebDNA solution. >>>> >>>> One of the Network Managers with my client noted that they had >>>> the same problem when they were using SendMail on Linux, I wonder >>>> if the engine in WebDNA has been borrowed from SendMail and >>>> therefore inheriting the problem. >>>> >>>> All my problems have been on Windows 2003 server platform. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Stuart Tremain >>>> IDFK Web Developments >>>> AUSTRALIA >>>> webdna@idfk.com.au >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 18/09/2008, at 6:47 PM, Tom Duke wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I need to upgrade a mass email tool that I have built for a >>>>> client. They are currently mailing to a list of about 7000. I >>>>> was wondering if anyone else has built such a tool? >>>>> >>>>> Things I need to code in to the upgrade are: >>>>> >>>>> - the ability to mail to a list of up 400000 >>>>> - the ability to track open rates for the email >>>>> - some method of handling email bounces >>>>> >>>>> I figure I need to decide whether WebDNA can do all this or >>>>> whether I need to look at something else like phpList. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> - Tom >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >>>> the mailing list
. >>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >>>> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ >>> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >> the mailing list . >> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us > old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
Thankfully I am not alone on this, it has driven me mad for years and in the end has lost me countless hours because I could not fix/explain it. Donovan, please check it out!!! Regards Stuart Tremain IDFK Web Developments AUSTRALIA webdna@idfk.com.au On 19/09/2008, at 11:54 AM, Psi Prime, Matthew A Perosi wrote: > I can confirm this issue and have direct experience with it. > > Here's what I know: > - My hardware was RedHat ES4 on a dual Xeon server. > - I had 2 separate SendMail applications on the same server and both > experienced the problem. > - The system would work fine for a month or more and then suddenly > it would get stuck on a single email and spin out of control. > - The runaway email would actually send many more times than the 10 > ticks per minute. > - If I stopped and restarted the WebCatalog deamon the runnaway > email would not stop, I needed to reboot the machine. > - The problem only seemed to happen on my one server, and I never > figured out the issue. > > Through a bit of detective work over the years I have discovered > something about the internal timing of the WebDNA deamon that might > help the new developers track this issue down, because my feeling is > there's more too it than we realize. > > While fighting with intermittent triggers about 2 years ago I needed > to create a way to be notified when a Trigger would fire. So I > added a simple [sendmail] with a [date] [time] that would notify me > when the Trigger correctly processed. > > To my surprise when the triggers malfunctioned they would either > fire and rest themselves to some future date, or they would fire and > set themselves to the current date but with a time of 15:45:52. > Once set to this magic time of 3:42pm and 52 seconds the Trigger > would fire wildly out of control and I would get 80 or more emails > with the same time stamp. > Now, I'm not talking about 1 email that got stuck in the > EMailFolder, I'm actually talking about 80 or more actual email > files that would be written to the EMailFolder > _In_A_Single_Second_. I can readily reproduce this condition if the > new developers would like access to see this issue. > > My feeling is that the background deamon sometimes goes out of > control, weather with triggers or with sending emails. Since both > are related to the background processing of the deamon it stands to > reason they might be caused by the same "misplaced semi-colon" > somewhere in the C code. > > Thankfully it's easier to correct the Trigger problem with layers of > additional conditional testing. As for the [sendmail] problem I > give my users a Submit button and tell them to submit 20 emails at a > time, to a max of 100 emails in the queue. I tell them to monitor > the screen and when they see the queue go down to under 20 they can > submit another 100. This is a poor method of sending emails but > most of them only send a few hundred emails a week anyway. Since I > gave them this instructions I have not had any problems. > > My hope was always that the bug will be found before I need to offer > my messaging system to someone in need of bulk 3000 emails. > > > Matthew A Perosi | > Psi Prime, Inc. | > http://www.psiprime.com | > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psi_Prime%2C_Inc | > 323 Union Blvd. | > Totowa, NJ 07512 | > P: 973.413.8210 | > F: 973.413.8217 | > > > > Stuart Tremain wrote: >> Chris >> >> The emails are generally short reminder messages, no more than 100 >> words. >> >> I had tried changing the ticks to a very slow rate but still no >> 100% solution >> >> I had tried sending to SMTP servers on the same machine/same >> network/different network everything imaginable so I can not blame >> the SMTP server. >> >> The only common instance is the WebDNA engine picking up the file >> and sending it to the SMTP. >> >> Regards >> >> Stuart Tremain >> IDFK Web Developments >> AUSTRALIA >> webdna@idfk.com.au >> >> >> >> >> On 19/09/2008, at 10:00 AM, Christophe Billiottet wrote: >> >>> Could it be that the process that removes the mail from >>> EMailFolder/ and move it to EMailCompleted/ be too slow for the >>> tick? my guess is the email is a large one and WebDNA will send it >>> again and again before having the chance to move it. There is a >>> mechanism that "locks" the mail while it is sent to prevent WebDNA >>> to move it too fast. >>> >>> - chris >>> >>> >>> On Sep 18, 2008, at 20:34, Stuart Tremain wrote: >>> >>>> I have had a few systems that send bulk emails using WebDNA >>>> however have run into BIG problems. >>>> >>>> The problem that arises (spam and all that stuff aside) is that >>>> sometimes one or two people in a mailing receive the email >>>> 60-80-100 times. The logs show only one instance being sent, I >>>> have tried using different SMTP gateways but keep coming back to >>>> the ONE common factor - WebDNA. My gut feeling is that there is a >>>> "bug" (?) in the process that sends the email to the SMTP server. >>>> After trying to sort out this problem with one client over a >>>> period of 3 years we have finally dumped the WebDNA solution. >>>> >>>> One of the Network Managers with my client noted that they had >>>> the same problem when they were using SendMail on Linux, I wonder >>>> if the engine in WebDNA has been borrowed from SendMail and >>>> therefore inheriting the problem. >>>> >>>> All my problems have been on Windows 2003 server platform. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Stuart Tremain >>>> IDFK Web Developments >>>> AUSTRALIA >>>> webdna@idfk.com.au >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 18/09/2008, at 6:47 PM, Tom Duke wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I need to upgrade a mass email tool that I have built for a >>>>> client. They are currently mailing to a list of about 7000. I >>>>> was wondering if anyone else has built such a tool? >>>>> >>>>> Things I need to code in to the upgrade are: >>>>> >>>>> - the ability to mail to a list of up 400000 >>>>> - the ability to track open rates for the email >>>>> - some method of handling email bounces >>>>> >>>>> I figure I need to decide whether WebDNA can do all this or >>>>> whether I need to look at something else like phpList. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> - Tom >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >>>> the mailing list . >>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >>>> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ >>> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >> the mailing list . >> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us > old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/
Stuart Tremain
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