Let me start with this:
I have evolved my business = through an interesting business model. I only have one customer = that pays for their own brand new, from scratch programming, and = recently I had them purchase their own backup server for their = location. I still = host their sites even though they have the hardware and internet = connection to do it themselves now.
Here's the bottom line guys... = this aforementioned client has paid me more than $500,000 in development = since 2003. They knew = they wanted a multi million dollar website, but they didn't want the = multi million dollar price. = They knew what they were getting into. The only assurance they = wanted was to know that if I ever went out of business that they could = find at least 1 person to take over the code and host their = websites. But now = they can do it on their own.
If you land a big customer like = this, they will be happy with the lower development cost, and finding = another host is the least of their worries.
On the other = hand, I have a different approach with smaller customers.
The = typical sites we put together cost between $4000 - $6000 for a = package. In the past = 10 years we (mostly I) have built a CMS using WebDNA. It has a lot of features, = and it does almost anything that is needed for a retail business. It also has features for = professional service industries. We tell people up front = that they are buying a "hosted" software package that will run their = website or their intranet. = It's a nice, simple to use CMS, but with some very fancy = features. We tell = everyone that if they leave our hosting we will be able to "export" a = copy of their site, but they can't take the CMS.
Honestly, for our normal customers, the CMS issue is = usually the least of their worries. They usually are more = interested in the features we already have that will save them custom = development with PHP or .NET if they go with the other guys.
Matthew = A Perosi = JewelerWebsites.com
------------------------------by Psi = Prime-------
Senior Web Developer = 323 Union Blvd.
= = Totowa, NJ 07512
Pre-Sales: = 888.872.0274
Service: 973.413.8213
Training: = 973.413.8214
Fax: = 973.413.8217
Gil Poulsen wrote:
= Just wanted to get my $0.02 = in here. At the moment I'm not doing any active development in WebDNA = but I've been using it since 1998 or thereabouts, and everything Matthew = and the other list members have stated here is true. There are also = numerous other reasons that WebDNA is head and shoulders above any other = development platform at least from my perspective, and seeing what = Donovan and the new WedDNA Software Corporation have been doing over the = past months has been very exciting, especially after watching SmithMicro = essentially bury the product.
But my concern, over the past = few years in particular, is that if I create a WebDNA-dependent site for = a client, and at some future time they decide to move it or use another = host, they essentially have a pile of useless code that no one is going = to be able to work with unless the Web hoste to which they transfer it = happens to already have (unlikely) WebDNA installed, or purchases a = WebDNA license. And if we're talking Dreamhost or GoDaddy or Xinet or = the like, that's probably not going to happen. Then the client feels = like they paid a lot of money for a useless set of Web pages that now = need to be completely recoded, typically in PHP because that's = ubiquitous and freely available.
So I'm curious to get other = developers' perspectives on this. Does anyone ever feel "guilty" = creating a WebDNA-based site for a client, knowing that they've pretty = much locked them into staying on their own server? Or am I making a big = deal out of something that's really not an issue, in the sense that if I = deliver a site that works the way the client wants it to work, whether = or not the code is portable is irrelevant? Does anyone explain in = writing to their cllent(s) that the site they've built for them is = essentially not going to run on any other Web server out there unless = they can convince the host to purchase and install a copy of = WebDNA?
There have already been a few times where I was = approached to put a site together and submitted a proposal, knowing I = could get it turned around more quickly than most and bring it in at a = reasonable price, both thanks to WebDNA, but the client insisted on = hosting with Dreamhost and that was non-negotiable, so situations like = that basically cause me to lose work. I've hosted my own sites at = various times, but maintaining and monitoring a Web server that needs to = be up 24/7 is not, at least to me, the best situation to get involved in = when you're a one-person shop.
On Jun 17, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Matthew Bohne = wrote:
= The number one reason is = development time. I = have spent hundreds of hours trying to duplicate simple functionality of = WebDNA in PHP. I have = a library of some functions and classes (including a shopping cart that = I have about 300 hours in, and it still doesn't do everything as easily = as WebDNA). I have = spent easily three times as long on a PHP site than a WebDNA site. Code takes time to write = and test. More code = takes more time. The = hard part has already been done in WebDNA, the functions are simple and = easy to use. There = are no huge libraries of functions and classes to do fancy things = because there doesn't need to be. There is no huge = collection of classes for connecting to a database and pulling out = information... it's built in. = The database administrator is built in. While we're on the subject = of databases... It's text. = Need to manually update a record while you're testing? Would you rather load up = phpMyAdmin, do some command line SQL, or open the database in a text = editor?
To address the learning curve... If you know PHP, = WebDNA is a breeze to learn. = Most developers wirth their salt know multiple languages anyway, = so learning a new one is a breeze. I learned the basics of = WebDNA in two weeks.
WebDNA programing is fast. You end up spending less = time doing the same tasks. = It's about efficiency.
Lawrence Banahan wrote:
= Hi All,
I'm = using Webdna for almost 7 years and don't what to change...
But it is impossible to find trainee that would = accept to learn it...
I also have partners who = would like us to pass the river and get to php/MySql.
When I have a look at MySql it looks horrible to me, = but is it more powerfull than Webcatalog?
But what other reason could I = say to keep going on Webdna...
Thank's for your Help
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