Re: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't

This WebDNA talk-list message is from

2009

It keeps the original formatting. numero = 102750
interpreted = N
texte = We are working on this because we are aware of this problem :-) and we hope to solve it within few months. Stay tuned! and support us, we need it.- chrisOn Jun 17, 2009, at 16:44, Gil Poulsen wrote:> Just wanted to get my $0.02 in here. At the moment I'm not doing any > active development in WebDNA but I've been using it since 1998 or > thereabouts, and everything Matthew and the other list members have > stated here is true. There are also numerous other reasons that > WebDNA is head and shoulders above any other development platform at > least from my perspective, and seeing what Donovan and the new > WedDNA Software Corporation have been doing over the past months has > been very exciting, especially after watching SmithMicro essentially > bury the product.>> But my concern, over the past few years in particular, is that if I > create a WebDNA-dependent site for a client, and at some future time > they decide to move it or use another host, they essentially have a > pile of useless code that no one is going to be able to work with > unless the Web hoste to which they transfer it happens to already > have (unlikely) WebDNA installed, or purchases a WebDNA license. And > if we're talking Dreamhost or GoDaddy or Xinet or the like, that's > probably not going to happen. Then the client feels like they paid a > lot of money for a useless set of Web pages that now need to be > completely recoded, typically in PHP because that's ubiquitous and > freely available.>> So I'm curious to get other developers' perspectives on this. Does > anyone ever feel "guilty" creating a WebDNA-based site for a client, > knowing that they've pretty much locked them into staying on their > own server? Or am I making a big deal out of something that's really > not an issue, in the sense that if I deliver a site that works the > way the client wants it to work, whether or not the code is portable > is irrelevant? Does anyone explain in writing to their cllent(s) > that the site they've built for them is essentially not going to run > on any other Web server out there unless they can convince the host > to purchase and install a copy of WebDNA?>> There have already been a few times where I was approached to put a > site together and submitted a proposal, knowing I could get it > turned around more quickly than most and bring it in at a reasonable > price, both thanks to WebDNA, but the client insisted on hosting > with Dreamhost and that was non-negotiable, so situations like that > basically cause me to lose work. I've hosted my own sites at various > times, but maintaining and monitoring a Web server that needs to be > up 24/7 is not, at least to me, the best situation to get involved > in when you're a one-person shop.>>> On Jun 17, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Matthew Bohne wrote:>>> The number one reason is development time. I have spent hundreds >> of hours trying to duplicate simple functionality of WebDNA in >> PHP. I have a library of some functions and classes (including a >> shopping cart that I have about 300 hours in, and it still doesn't >> do everything as easily as WebDNA). I have spent easily three >> times as long on a PHP site than a WebDNA site. Code takes time to >> write and test. More code takes more time. The hard part has >> already been done in WebDNA, the functions are simple and easy to >> use. There are no huge libraries of functions and classes to do >> fancy things because there doesn't need to be. There is no huge >> collection of classes for connecting to a database and pulling out >> information... it's built in. The database administrator is built >> in. While we're on the subject of databases... It's text. Need to >> manually update a record while you're testing? Would you rather >> load up phpMyAdmin, do some command line SQL, or open the database >> in a text editor?>>>> To address the learning curve... If you know PHP, WebDNA is a >> breeze to learn. Most developers wirth their salt know multiple >> languages anyway, so learning a new one is a breeze. I learned the >> basics of WebDNA in two weeks.>>>> WebDNA programing is fast. You end up spending less time doing the >> same tasks. It's about efficiency.>>>> Lawrence Banahan wrote:>>> Hi All,>>>>>> I'm using Webdna for almost 7 years and don't what to change...>>> But it is impossible to find trainee that would accept to learn >>> it...>>> I also have partners who would like us to pass the river and get >>> to php/MySql.>>> When I have a look at MySql it looks horrible to me, but is it >>> more powerfull than Webcatalog?>>> I know about http://webdna.us/page.dna?numero=37>>> But what other reason could I say to keep going on Webdna...>>>>>> Thank's for your Help>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------->>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>>> the mailing list .>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>>> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------->> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>> the mailing list .>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/>>>> --> Gil Poulsen, Mac Wirehead>> ************************> AltiM@c Consulting> 23 Marco Polo Court> Franklin Park, NJ 08823-1703> Voice: 609-359-0103> ************************>>> ---------------------------------------------------------> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to> the mailing list .> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:

Re: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't (Terry Wilson 2009)
Re: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't (Donovan Brooke 2009)
Re: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't (Lawrence Banahan 2009)
Re: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't (Frank Nordberg 2009)
Re: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't ("Psi Prime, Matthew A Perosi " 2009)
Re: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't (Donovan Brooke 2009)
RE: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't ("Michael A. DeLorenzo" 2009)
Re: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't (Terry Wilson 2009)
Re: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't (christophe.billiottet@webdna.us 2009)
RE: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't ("Tana Adams" 2009)
Re: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't (Gil Poulsen 2009)
RE: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't ("Michael A. DeLorenzo" 2009)
Re: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't (christophe.billiottet@webdna.us 2009)
Re: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't (Matthew Bohne 2009)
[WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't (Lawrence Banahan 2009)

We are working on this because we are aware of this problem :-) and we hope to solve it within few months. Stay tuned! and support us, we need it.- chrisOn Jun 17, 2009, at 16:44, Gil Poulsen wrote:> Just wanted to get my $0.02 in here. At the moment I'm not doing any > active development in WebDNA but I've been using it since 1998 or > thereabouts, and everything Matthew and the other list members have > stated here is true. There are also numerous other reasons that > WebDNA is head and shoulders above any other development platform at > least from my perspective, and seeing what Donovan and the new > WedDNA Software Corporation have been doing over the past months has > been very exciting, especially after watching SmithMicro essentially > bury the product.>> But my concern, over the past few years in particular, is that if I > create a WebDNA-dependent site for a client, and at some future time > they decide to move it or use another host, they essentially have a > pile of useless code that no one is going to be able to work with > unless the Web hoste to which they transfer it happens to already > have (unlikely) WebDNA installed, or purchases a WebDNA license. And > if we're talking Dreamhost or GoDaddy or Xinet or the like, that's > probably not going to happen. Then the client feels like they paid a > lot of money for a useless set of Web pages that now need to be > completely recoded, typically in PHP because that's ubiquitous and > freely available.>> So I'm curious to get other developers' perspectives on this. Does > anyone ever feel "guilty" creating a WebDNA-based site for a client, > knowing that they've pretty much locked them into staying on their > own server? Or am I making a big deal out of something that's really > not an issue, in the sense that if I deliver a site that works the > way the client wants it to work, whether or not the code is portable > is irrelevant? Does anyone explain in writing to their cllent(s) > that the site they've built for them is essentially not going to run > on any other Web server out there unless they can convince the host > to purchase and install a copy of WebDNA?>> There have already been a few times where I was approached to put a > site together and submitted a proposal, knowing I could get it > turned around more quickly than most and bring it in at a reasonable > price, both thanks to WebDNA, but the client insisted on hosting > with Dreamhost and that was non-negotiable, so situations like that > basically cause me to lose work. I've hosted my own sites at various > times, but maintaining and monitoring a Web server that needs to be > up 24/7 is not, at least to me, the best situation to get involved > in when you're a one-person shop.>>> On Jun 17, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Matthew Bohne wrote:>>> The number one reason is development time. I have spent hundreds >> of hours trying to duplicate simple functionality of WebDNA in >> PHP. I have a library of some functions and classes (including a >> shopping cart that I have about 300 hours in, and it still doesn't >> do everything as easily as WebDNA). I have spent easily three >> times as long on a PHP site than a WebDNA site. Code takes time to >> write and test. More code takes more time. The hard part has >> already been done in WebDNA, the functions are simple and easy to >> use. There are no huge libraries of functions and classes to do >> fancy things because there doesn't need to be. There is no huge >> collection of classes for connecting to a database and pulling out >> information... it's built in. The database administrator is built >> in. While we're on the subject of databases... It's text. Need to >> manually update a record while you're testing? Would you rather >> load up phpMyAdmin, do some command line SQL, or open the database >> in a text editor?>>>> To address the learning curve... If you know PHP, WebDNA is a >> breeze to learn. Most developers wirth their salt know multiple >> languages anyway, so learning a new one is a breeze. I learned the >> basics of WebDNA in two weeks.>>>> WebDNA programing is fast. You end up spending less time doing the >> same tasks. It's about efficiency.>>>> Lawrence Banahan wrote:>>> Hi All,>>>>>> I'm using Webdna for almost 7 years and don't what to change...>>> But it is impossible to find trainee that would accept to learn >>> it...>>> I also have partners who would like us to pass the river and get >>> to php/MySql.>>> When I have a look at MySql it looks horrible to me, but is it >>> more powerfull than Webcatalog?>>> I know about http://webdna.us/page.dna?numero=37>>> But what other reason could I say to keep going on Webdna...>>>>>> Thank's for your Help>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------->>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>>> the mailing list .>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>>> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------->> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>> the mailing list .>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/>>>> --> Gil Poulsen, Mac Wirehead>> ************************> AltiM@c Consulting> 23 Marco Polo Court> Franklin Park, NJ 08823-1703> Voice: 609-359-0103> ************************>>> ---------------------------------------------------------> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to> the mailing list .> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ christophe.billiottet@webdna.us

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Re: [WebDNA] What does PHP(5) has, that Webdna hasn't

2009

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