Re: Integration?

This WebDNA talk-list message is from

1999

It keeps the original formatting. numero = 22728
interpreted = N
texte = Charles,Our biz, PageHouse, is a three person shop. One does all thebilling/financial, one does all the peddling/client interaction, and thethird person, does all the coding. I'm the third person.Initially, the other partners could do minor coding on static sites, but itquickly moved out of their realm. Since then, it's been myself and clientshammering out sites. And I have some of the same beefs with a client'sgraphic designer that you have with your boss.What I've discovered is to build a really strong client relationship. WhatI'll do at the beginning of a project is to sit down with theclient/graphic designer and figure out what their plans are for the site(services offered, graphics, etc), I'll do some quick mental figuring, givethem a price and then we'll negotiate from there. Generally we quote aprice per job, figuring in client interaction time, actual coding,proofing, server setup (DNS, directories) and client BS (*have* to rememberthis!).What I usually do is start cobbling together a site, get the general enginein place and then let the client and designer look at it and start makingtheir changes. Generally, we let them go through two rounds of this- amajor this is what I like/don't like, this is what I want instead andthen a second round of tweaking. If they want anything outside the originalquote it's on a per hour basis (wish I could charge Ken's prices$$$). I*expect* the client to check the beta site regularly as work progresses,because they should have as much interest in their site as we do. Samething with the designer- if they don't like something I want to know beforeI move on to another part of the project.I work in CyberStudio and BBEdit and have found that I haven't had anymajor problems with this method. I've adjusted it somewhat from the printindustry (where I have worked in the past) and have run into problems withgraphic designers who help with the templates: they'll build this great140K template but then get disappointed when I tell them that an additional50-60K of data is going to flow into that page which will make the page waytoo big and cumbersome. Also, if I need a graphic element (logo, productart, etc) I've told the artist what I need so they can craft it- ahorizontal version of a logo for a banner, product art that's X x X for atemplate, etc...I guess what I'm saying is that it can be done, it's just that you need todevelop an idea of what can/can't be done in WebCat so that you can tellthe designer what you can/can't do with his designs. I think that you'llhave to assume the mantle of leadership on these projects because it's yourcode that makes it work, not his designs (although you need both).Bill>I have a question that I was hoping would start a discussion about>peoples experiences integrating WebCat into their Web Development scene.>>You see, I work for a pretty small company in New Jersey. I do ALL of the>WebCat - WebMastering stuff here. Life is good; for me anyhow. The>problem lies in that my boss who is the designer, is uncomfortable with>code and uses CyberStudio to do almost everything he does code. So, we>have a new project...a store...he wants to be more involved in the>development of. It is a store. I decided that because we are on a tight>budget, I would use the StoreBuilder templates. They have worked out>pretty good.>>Here is where the problem comes in. There is a section of the site that I>will be developing as a custom set of templates for this store. My boss>does not want it to be done using a database so he can work on it too. I>on the other hand can't imagine any other way of doing it. I explained>that I would create a set of admin templates that would allow him to make>changes etc... so anyway to make a long story short, I will be just>adding a little bit of WebDNA to the bottom so that we can add the items>to the cart. That is all. This data will most likely be static info on>these pages.>>So my question is this...I guess it is becoming a reality to my boss that>the sites we are starting to do are beginning to move out of his grasp.>Has anyone else had to deal with this? Any input would be greatly>appreciated - especially if it makes the integration easier for everyone>here.>>Thanks>>Charles>>-->_______________________________________________________________>Charles Kline ckline@macsultants.com>>WebMaster - eCommerce Specialist>>>MacSultants>Professional Solutions for Computer Systems>>Phone# 609-273-3255>Fax# 609-273-3721--Bill Heissenbuttel PageHouse, Inc.bill@pagehouse.com Internet Presence Providerhttp://www.pagehouse.com (509) 892-1973 Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:

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Charles,Our biz, PageHouse, is a three person shop. One does all thebilling/financial, one does all the peddling/client interaction, and thethird person, does all the coding. I'm the third person.Initially, the other partners could do minor coding on static sites, but itquickly moved out of their realm. Since then, it's been myself and clientshammering out sites. And I have some of the same beefs with a client'sgraphic designer that you have with your boss.What I've discovered is to build a really strong client relationship. WhatI'll do at the beginning of a project is to sit down with theclient/graphic designer and figure out what their plans are for the site(services offered, graphics, etc), I'll do some quick mental figuring, givethem a price and then we'll negotiate from there. Generally we quote aprice per job, figuring in client interaction time, actual coding,proofing, server setup (DNS, directories) and client BS (*have* to rememberthis!).What I usually do is start cobbling together a site, get the general enginein place and then let the client and designer look at it and start makingtheir changes. Generally, we let them go through two rounds of this- amajor this is what I like/don't like, this is what I want instead andthen a second round of tweaking. If they want anything outside the originalquote it's on a per hour basis (wish I could charge Ken's prices$$$). I*expect* the client to check the beta site regularly as work progresses,because they should have as much interest in their site as we do. Samething with the designer- if they don't like something I want to know beforeI move on to another part of the project.I work in CyberStudio and BBEdit and have found that I haven't had anymajor problems with this method. I've adjusted it somewhat from the printindustry (where I have worked in the past) and have run into problems withgraphic designers who help with the templates: they'll build this great140K template but then get disappointed when I tell them that an additional50-60K of data is going to flow into that page which will make the page waytoo big and cumbersome. Also, if I need a graphic element (logo, productart, etc) I've told the artist what I need so they can craft it- ahorizontal version of a logo for a banner, product art that's X x X for atemplate, etc...I guess what I'm saying is that it can be done, it's just that you need todevelop an idea of what can/can't be done in WebCat so that you can tellthe designer what you can/can't do with his designs. I think that you'llhave to assume the mantle of leadership on these projects because it's yourcode that makes it work, not his designs (although you need both).Bill>I have a question that I was hoping would start a discussion about>peoples experiences integrating WebCat into their Web Development scene.>>You see, I work for a pretty small company in New Jersey. I do ALL of the>WebCat - WebMastering stuff here. Life is good; for me anyhow. The>problem lies in that my boss who is the designer, is uncomfortable with>code and uses CyberStudio to do almost everything he does code. So, we>have a new project...a store...he wants to be more involved in the>development of. It is a store. I decided that because we are on a tight>budget, I would use the StoreBuilder templates. They have worked out>pretty good.>>Here is where the problem comes in. There is a section of the site that I>will be developing as a custom set of templates for this store. My boss>does not want it to be done using a database so he can work on it too. I>on the other hand can't imagine any other way of doing it. I explained>that I would create a set of admin templates that would allow him to make>changes etc... so anyway to make a long story short, I will be just>adding a little bit of WebDNA to the bottom so that we can add the items>to the cart. That is all. This data will most likely be static info on>these pages.>>So my question is this...I guess it is becoming a reality to my boss that>the sites we are starting to do are beginning to move out of his grasp.>Has anyone else had to deal with this? Any input would be greatly>appreciated - especially if it makes the integration easier for everyone>here.>>Thanks>>Charles>>-->_______________________________________________________________>Charles Kline ckline@macsultants.com>>WebMaster - eCommerce Specialist>>>MacSultants>Professional Solutions for Computer Systems>>Phone# 609-273-3255>Fax# 609-273-3721--Bill Heissenbuttel PageHouse, Inc.bill@pagehouse.com Internet Presence Providerhttp://www.pagehouse.com (509) 892-1973 Bill Heissenbuttel

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Re: Integration?

1999

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