Re: Ruby on Rails (was Looping Search)
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2006
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 66809
interpreted = N
texte = It is not a matter of using a framework or not or to use Openlazlo/Flex.You can use your existing code with Openlazlo/Flex (which in the end mea=ns ou need to rewrite some stuff to make it work with those products). J=ust like you will need to Javascript your way around to make the site wo=rk with Ajax. Still your WebDNA code remains (sort of) the same.A framework is a WAY to organize your code and make it more object orien=ted (depending on the framework). Go over to fusebox.org (I guess) and d=ownload it to see how it work.So far I have not found a framework that I really like. I tried to mimik= Fusebox with WebDNA, but some things did not work out. Most frameworks =use session and client variables which are stored within the server and =not in the browser. To do this with WebDNA would require some use of a t=emporary database plus cookies and so on.So, if you want to develop a system that works like a desktop applicatio=n then start using Flex/Openlazlo/Ajax.If you want to start organizing your code and write once and use everywh=ere then start using a framework (somehow). The first step would be to s=tart developing WebDNA code within functions (which are somehow a "obejc=t oriented" way to organize your code and call it by variables.Some years ago I started to use mainly a index.tpl page that always gets= called and showing what depending on variables and actions. Sort of lik=e fusebox which calls a controller and that controller gets the fuses wi=th the different content.=20It takes some time to get used to it, but after some time I think it is =worth the effort because it keeps your code lean and clean and when you =are a team developing on the code much clearer to everyone. Of course th=is forces everyone to adore to a concept.Ok, I could go on about this, but don't want to bore anyone :-)Nitai--eContentPark - Enterprise Asset Management SystemeServices - The complete SupportSuiteeSurvey - Online Questionnaire made easyRedakto CMS - Content Management that simply worksComputerOil=AE AGNeugutstrasse 668600 D=FCbendorf / SwitzerlandTelefon +41 (0)844 44 55 66info@computeroil.comhttp://computeroil.comFrom: Bess Ho [mailto:BessH@USMS.com]To: WebDNA Talk [mailto:WebDNA-Talk@talk.smithmicro.com]Sent: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 21:20:27 +0200Subject: Re: Ruby on Rails (was Looping Search)May be you can go into detail about advantages of frameworks. Why framew=orks can offer something that RIA can't.-----Original Message-----From: WebDNA Talk [mailto:WebDNA-Talk@talk.smithmicro.com]On Behalf Ofnitai@computeroil.comSent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 12:05 PMTo: WebDNA TalkSubject: Re: Ruby on Rails (was Looping Search)But Rubyonrails or Fusebox or alike are frameworks that make you work in= a certain way and are suppossed to make your code more streamlined.OpenLazlo/Flex/Ajax are tools to create Rich Internet Applications that =behave the same like a Desktop application. Mostly they are tight to XML= syntax and can interact with a middleware which connects to a database.I have had (and still are) expiriencing with Flex, but like I said it is= for creating RIA.Nitai--eContentPark - Enterprise Asset Management SystemeServices - The complete SupportSuiteeSurvey - Online Questionnaire made easyRedakto CMS - Content Management that simply worksComputerOil=AE AGNeugutstrasse 668600 D=FCbendorf / SwitzerlandTelefon +41 (0)844 44 55 66info@computeroil.comhttp://computeroil.comFrom: Bess Ho [mailto:BessH@USMS.com]To: WebDNA Talk [mailto:WebDNA-Talk@talk.smithmicro.com]Sent: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 20:51:33 +0200Subject: Re: Ruby on Rails (was Looping Search)You are right. Rudyonrails looks pretty good. I am exploring OpenLaszlo.=org that allows plug-n-play AJAX or Flash. It may be even faster to deli=ver the functionality.-----Original Message-----From: WebDNA Talk [mailto:WebDNA-Talk@talk.smithmicro.com]On Behalf Ofdevaulw@onebox.comSent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:30 AMTo: WebDNA TalkSubject: Re: Ruby on Rails (was Looping Search)Using, no. Experimenting, yes. I think John also said he was looking int=o it.=20I never cared for PHP since that was just another scripting language. PH=P and WebDNA are the same from that perspective. Ruby on Rails is differ=ent though.=20One issue with Ruby on Rails is that one needs to know/learn Ruby (a lan=guage) and then learn Rails (a framework). Ruby is an object oriented la=nguage -- this is conceptually different from scripting languages in man=y respects.=20Rails is a framework. It basically sets up convenient places to put part=s of your web application and gives a number of tools that tie the appli=cation to a database and provide some very useful built-in methods that =make creating applications simple and adding features very, very easy. I=t strives to prevent code duplication (write once, use everywhere in you=r app -- they call it DRY for don't repeat yourself).=20The real kicker is that Rails makes it unbelievably easy to add lots of =nice AJAX type functionality.=20Given that Rails is a framework, others are using it as a model to creat=e frameworks in PHP, Python and other languages. I haven't seen any effo=rt in WebDNA on this front to build a framework other than storebuilder =and that is more of a generator than a framework that would work for any= application.=20I was drawn to Rails when I saw some of the screencasts that showed how =easy it was to create a blog for example. That was something that people= on the WebDNA list had talked about putting together as an OS project. =With Rails, a basic blog can be done in about fifteen minutes (assuming =you've invested in the learning curve).Bill-----Original Message-----From: Clint Davis
Sent: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 09:11:24 -0500To: "WebDNA Talk" Subject: Re: Ruby on Rails (was Looping Search)As a sidenote...Is anyone on the list using Ruby on Rails=3F I don't have any experience= withit, but it's potential is very attractive.On 4/6/06 9:04 AM, "devaulw@onebox.com" wrote:> Back on the data structure, I just read last night about the "acts=5Fa=s=5Ftree"> model method in Rails. That seems like it would work really well to ha=ndle the> self-referential tree structure originally set out. Of course, you'd h=ave to> be using Rails first.=20-------------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed tothe mailing list .To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/-------------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed tothe mailing list .To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/-------------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed tothe mailing list .To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/-------------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed tothe mailing list .To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/-------------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed tothe mailing list .To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/-------------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list .To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
It is not a matter of using a framework or not or to use Openlazlo/Flex.You can use your existing code with Openlazlo/Flex (which in the end mea=ns ou need to rewrite some stuff to make it work with those products). J=ust like you will need to Javascript your way around to make the site wo=rk with Ajax. Still your WebDNA code remains (sort of) the same.A framework is a WAY to organize your code and make it more object orien=ted (depending on the framework). Go over to fusebox.org (I guess) and d=ownload it to see how it work.So far I have not found a framework that I really like. I tried to mimik= Fusebox with WebDNA, but some things did not work out. Most frameworks =use session and client variables which are stored within the server and =not in the browser. To do this with WebDNA would require some use of a t=emporary database plus cookies and so on.So, if you want to develop a system that works like a desktop applicatio=n then start using Flex/Openlazlo/Ajax.If you want to start organizing your code and write once and use everywh=ere then start using a framework (somehow). The first step would be to s=tart developing WebDNA code within functions (which are somehow a "obejc=t oriented" way to organize your code and call it by variables.Some years ago I started to use mainly a index.tpl page that always gets= called and showing what depending on variables and actions. Sort of lik=e fusebox which calls a controller and that controller gets the fuses wi=th the different content.=20It takes some time to get used to it, but after some time I think it is =worth the effort because it keeps your code lean and clean and when you =are a team developing on the code much clearer to everyone. Of course th=is forces everyone to adore to a concept.Ok, I could go on about this, but don't want to bore anyone :-)Nitai--eContentPark - Enterprise Asset Management SystemeServices - The complete SupportSuiteeSurvey - Online Questionnaire made easyRedakto CMS - Content Management that simply worksComputerOil=AE AGNeugutstrasse 668600 D=FCbendorf / SwitzerlandTelefon +41 (0)844 44 55 66info@computeroil.comhttp://computeroil.comFrom: Bess Ho [mailto:BessH@USMS.com]To: WebDNA Talk [mailto:WebDNA-Talk@talk.smithmicro.com]Sent: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 21:20:27 +0200Subject: Re: Ruby on Rails (was Looping Search)May be you can go into detail about advantages of frameworks. Why framew=orks can offer something that RIA can't.-----Original Message-----From: WebDNA Talk [mailto:WebDNA-Talk@talk.smithmicro.com]On Behalf Ofnitai@computeroil.comSent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 12:05 PMTo: WebDNA TalkSubject: Re: Ruby on Rails (was Looping Search)But Rubyonrails or Fusebox or alike are frameworks that make you work in= a certain way and are suppossed to make your code more streamlined.OpenLazlo/Flex/Ajax are tools to create Rich Internet Applications that =behave the same like a Desktop application. Mostly they are tight to XML= syntax and can interact with a middleware which connects to a database.I have had (and still are) expiriencing with Flex, but like I said it is= for creating RIA.Nitai--eContentPark - Enterprise Asset Management SystemeServices - The complete SupportSuiteeSurvey - Online Questionnaire made easyRedakto CMS - Content Management that simply worksComputerOil=AE AGNeugutstrasse 668600 D=FCbendorf / SwitzerlandTelefon +41 (0)844 44 55 66info@computeroil.comhttp://computeroil.comFrom: Bess Ho [mailto:BessH@USMS.com]To: WebDNA Talk [mailto:WebDNA-Talk@talk.smithmicro.com]Sent: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 20:51:33 +0200Subject: Re: Ruby on Rails (was Looping Search)You are right. Rudyonrails looks pretty good. I am exploring OpenLaszlo.=org that allows plug-n-play AJAX or Flash. It may be even faster to deli=ver the functionality.-----Original Message-----From: WebDNA Talk [mailto:WebDNA-Talk@talk.smithmicro.com]On Behalf Ofdevaulw@onebox.comSent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:30 AMTo: WebDNA TalkSubject: Re: Ruby on Rails (was Looping Search)Using, no. Experimenting, yes. I think John also said he was looking int=o it.=20I never cared for PHP since that was just another scripting language. PH=P and WebDNA are the same from that perspective. Ruby on Rails is differ=ent though.=20One issue with Ruby on Rails is that one needs to know/learn Ruby (a lan=guage) and then learn Rails (a framework). Ruby is an object oriented la=nguage -- this is conceptually different from scripting languages in man=y respects.=20Rails is a framework. It basically sets up convenient places to put part=s of your web application and gives a number of tools that tie the appli=cation to a database and provide some very useful built-in methods that =make creating applications simple and adding features very, very easy. I=t strives to prevent code duplication (write once, use everywhere in you=r app -- they call it DRY for don't repeat yourself).=20The real kicker is that Rails makes it unbelievably easy to add lots of =nice AJAX type functionality.=20Given that Rails is a framework, others are using it as a model to creat=e frameworks in PHP, Python and other languages. I haven't seen any effo=rt in WebDNA on this front to build a framework other than storebuilder =and that is more of a generator than a framework that would work for any= application.=20I was drawn to Rails when I saw some of the screencasts that showed how =easy it was to create a blog for example. That was something that people= on the WebDNA list had talked about putting together as an OS project. =With Rails, a basic blog can be done in about fifteen minutes (assuming =you've invested in the learning curve).Bill-----Original Message-----From: Clint Davis Sent: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 09:11:24 -0500To: "WebDNA Talk" Subject: Re: Ruby on Rails (was Looping Search)As a sidenote...Is anyone on the list using Ruby on Rails=3F I don't have any experience= withit, but it's potential is very attractive.On 4/6/06 9:04 AM, "devaulw@onebox.com" wrote:> Back on the data structure, I just read last night about the "acts=5Fa=s=5Ftree"> model method in Rails. That seems like it would work really well to ha=ndle the> self-referential tree structure originally set out. Of course, you'd h=ave to> be using Rails first.=20-------------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed tothe mailing list .To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/-------------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed tothe mailing list .To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/-------------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed tothe mailing list .To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/-------------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed tothe mailing list .To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/-------------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed tothe mailing list .To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/-------------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list .To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/
nitai@computeroil.com
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