Re: Hosts who have upgraded to v5.0?
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2003
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 49059
interpreted = N
texte = I've looked for this before couldn't find one; but does SM have a matrix comparing the features of the different versions of WebDNA?[example] http://www.dantz.com/products/maccompare.html http://www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion/productinfo/ features_by_edition/#300 [/example]andyOn Monday, Mar 31, 2003, at 15:24 America/Havana, Phillip Bonesteele wrote:> > Marc, > > Could you please be more specific as I'm not clear on what you mean by > dropping products or repackaging the same product. Before we started > thinking about 5.0 well over a year ago, you could purchase two > products ... > Typhoon Pro, and WebCatalog. Those two 'packages' still exist in > pretty > much the identical form as Partner Edition and Commerce Edition. You > purchased WebCatalog ... which is called Commerce Edition today, but > today > with 5.0 has several new features at the same price point. All the > other > editions are new packages for new functionality. > > This is what we've changed in the past year with the introduction of > 4.5 and > now 5.0: > > - Developer Edition: new product package, now free, all features > enabled > with the limitation on threads so you can freely develop against any > WebDNA > product feature or language element, but need to move up the food > chain to > one of the production licenses if you want to host high volume sites. > > - BMT (Before My Time), there was a 'Typhoon' product at $99 that was > non-commerce (no commerce tags) and limited to one database. This was > no > longer available when I became a SMSI employee, so is the only case of > a > 'dropped' product that I'm aware of ... and that's been a couple years > ago. > Given the choice of a one-database, non-commerce product at $99, and a > complete functionality, unlimited database, three-thread product for > free > (Developer Edition), I'd think many people would find Developer more > useful. > > - Typhoon Pro = Partner Edition: lower price, now without thread > limits in > 5.0, and contains new 5.0 features. > > - WebCatalog = Commerce Edition: lowered the price from $2,995 to > $1,995 for > unlimited domains earlier last year, with 5.0 now has more features. > Additionally, available at an entry point of $995 if you don't need > unlimited domains. > > As for your argument that it's the same software in new box ... > there is > significant quantitative evidence that we did in fact add a lot of new > functionality to the product. You can download the free Developer > Edition > 5.0 and try out everything except the Intranet and Content Management > templates. The Intranet can be seen via the test site posted on the > DRC. > I'm looking at how we could post a publicly available site for Content > Management (perhaps as a repository on the DRC for free sample code > that > registered users could modify and post check-ins of their > modifications?). > > At every software company I've ever worked at or known of for the past > twenty years, the only way you could get perpetual new functionality > upgrades for 'free' is if you paid a recurring annual maintenance > subscription, which we do not do. I don't know why, but I wasn't able > to > convince Microsoft to give me that Windows XP upgrade for free. Come > to > think of it, I also had to pay for that new version of Quicken, even > though > I was a loyal customer for years. Of course, I could have just > decided that > I didn't need the new features in the new version of Quicken and > stayed with > the older version ... maybe I should send some flame mail to Intuit > and see > if they'll just give me that new version for free. > > The bottom line is every software company, ourselves included, spend > money, > and lots of it, to support products and to develop new features. The > only > way that can continue is if the result of that investment some how > generates > revenue to support that effort. If you went out and bought a Honda > Accord > five years ago, then drove it for 120K miles, having owned that car > for five > years doesn't somehow include the right to get a 2003 Honda Accord at > no > cost. Does the 2003 Accord have a lot of similarities to your 1998 > model? > Sure, it has four wheels, AC, airbags, stereo, etc. ... but the new > one also > has new features that the old one doesn't. Is it fair to accuse Honda > of > simply re-branding the old 1998 Accord as a 2003 and selling you the > same > old product under a new name simply because you don't understand the > value > in any of the new features? I'd think not. You can CHOOSE to simply > keep > driving that 1998 Accord. > > Phil B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: marc@kaiwi.com [mailto:marc@kaiwi.com] > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 11:10 AM > To: WebDNA-Talk@talk.smithmicro.com > Subject: Re: Hosts who have upgraded to v5.0? > > I have to add to this. I agree, and I'm very upset about it. > > The fact is that SmithMicro has priced me right out of their product > and I'm mad about it. I purchased WebCatalog (several licenses in fact) > at a premium price under the assumption that it was a good product and > one that I would continue to develop, promote and upgrade. > > Unfortunately SmithMicro is in fact dropping the products I purchased, > repackaging the same product and trying to sell it back to me again at > a premium price as if it were some kind of new program all together. > Some might argue that it is indeed a new product but when I look at, > It's the same software in a new box. > > I couldn't begin to suggest or talk about marketing strategy because I > don't know anything about it. All I see as an end user of this product > is that, as it turns out it would seem that it was a bad choice on my > part to invest the time and money in SmithMicro's product in the first > place only to have them price me right out of the market. > > I won't make the same mistake again with SM. I may have to discontinue > any further WebDNA upgrades but that won't stop me from developing new > software with what ever tools are available to me and the fact is I > don't really care who's name is on the tool box i use but unfortunately > it doesn't look like it's going to be SmithMicro. > > SIDE BAR: The whole issue of the new product marketing and pricing has > been a joke from the beginning. I've read (on this list) many hundreds > if not thousands of words from SM's crack sales team packed full of all > kinds of dynamic sounding techno sales jargon and it still took > hundreds of emails back and forth from SM and folks on this list to > figure out how much the thing would cost!! Come on! Sheeshhh. > > : c) > > Thanks, > > MK > > > > > On Monday, March 31, 2003, at 09:06 AM, Claude Gelinas wrote: > >> Hi Kenneth, >> >> It's a very expensive upgrade and it's nowhere close to my available >> budget for such an upgrade. I'd go as far as 500$US for a fully >> unlimited license. That's the absolute max. >> >> Unfortunately, the folks at SmithMicro seem to think we're rich, or >> something. They fail to see PHP's rock solid capabilities and free >> license (which makes a world of a difference since). >> >> Since a lot of the action on the list seems like it's slowing down, I >> take it that perhaps a majority of WebDNA users are already toying >> aroung with the thousands of PHP scripts freely available at >> http://hotscripts.com/ to convert everything they built with WebDNA in >> the past in order to have 100% PHP operations in the future. >> >> It's sad but SmithMicro can't understand the logic of small web shops >> like mine. They seem to think we're very rich and the only way out for >> us is to pay their insanely high prices and unattractive conditions >> (the domain limitation, namely). >> >> An alternative talk of this matter is going on at >> http://webmaster.mbnx.net/ but my biggest wish would be that >> SmithMicro woke up and got a brutal reality check: we're NOT rich! We >> love the language but raising the bar for us all will just kill the >> language by pushing everyone to something they can afford, such as > >> PHP. >> >> God, I really hope they wake up! >> >> Here's a bit of advice: being generous will make you insanely rich. Be >> a grinch and you'll choke under your own paranoia that you're it. >> SmithMicro: please get a brain. Your sky-high prices are killing any >> chance for the language to seriously take off in the market. It >> doesn't take a genie to figure that one out but obviously, SmithMicro >> still isn't figuring it out... >> >> I wouldn't say all this if I wasn't madly in love in your language. >> I'm doing it because I care. >> >> Respectfully yours, > > Signed: Marc Kaiwi ------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list
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Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
I've looked for this before couldn't find one; but does SM have a matrix comparing the features of the different versions of WebDNA?[example] http://www.dantz.com/products/maccompare.html http://www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion/productinfo/ features_by_edition/#300 [/example]andyOn Monday, Mar 31, 2003, at 15:24 America/Havana, Phillip Bonesteele wrote:> > Marc, > > Could you please be more specific as I'm not clear on what you mean by > dropping products or repackaging the same product. Before we started > thinking about 5.0 well over a year ago, you could purchase two > products ... > Typhoon Pro, and WebCatalog. Those two 'packages' still exist in > pretty > much the identical form as Partner Edition and Commerce Edition. You > purchased WebCatalog ... which is called Commerce Edition today, but > today > with 5.0 has several new features at the same price point. All the > other > editions are new packages for new functionality. > > This is what we've changed in the past year with the introduction of > 4.5 and > now 5.0: > > - Developer Edition: new product package, now free, all features > enabled > with the limitation on threads so you can freely develop against any > WebDNA > product feature or language element, but need to move up the food > chain to > one of the production licenses if you want to host high volume sites. > > - BMT (Before My Time), there was a 'Typhoon' product at $99 that was > non-commerce (no commerce tags) and limited to one database. This was > no > longer available when I became a SMSI employee, so is the only case of > a > 'dropped' product that I'm aware of ... and that's been a couple years > ago. > Given the choice of a one-database, non-commerce product at $99, and a > complete functionality, unlimited database, three-thread product for > free > (Developer Edition), I'd think many people would find Developer more > useful. > > - Typhoon Pro = Partner Edition: lower price, now without thread > limits in > 5.0, and contains new 5.0 features. > > - WebCatalog = Commerce Edition: lowered the price from $2,995 to > $1,995 for > unlimited domains earlier last year, with 5.0 now has more features. > Additionally, available at an entry point of $995 if you don't need > unlimited domains. > > As for your argument that it's the same software in new box ... > there is > significant quantitative evidence that we did in fact add a lot of new > functionality to the product. You can download the free Developer > Edition > 5.0 and try out everything except the Intranet and Content Management > templates. The Intranet can be seen via the test site posted on the > DRC. > I'm looking at how we could post a publicly available site for Content > Management (perhaps as a repository on the DRC for free sample code > that > registered users could modify and post check-ins of their > modifications?). > > At every software company I've ever worked at or known of for the past > twenty years, the only way you could get perpetual new functionality > upgrades for 'free' is if you paid a recurring annual maintenance > subscription, which we do not do. I don't know why, but I wasn't able > to > convince Microsoft to give me that Windows XP upgrade for free. Come > to > think of it, I also had to pay for that new version of Quicken, even > though > I was a loyal customer for years. Of course, I could have just > decided that > I didn't need the new features in the new version of Quicken and > stayed with > the older version ... maybe I should send some flame mail to Intuit > and see > if they'll just give me that new version for free. > > The bottom line is every software company, ourselves included, spend > money, > and lots of it, to support products and to develop new features. The > only > way that can continue is if the result of that investment some how > generates > revenue to support that effort. If you went out and bought a Honda > Accord > five years ago, then drove it for 120K miles, having owned that car > for five > years doesn't somehow include the right to get a 2003 Honda Accord at > no > cost. Does the 2003 Accord have a lot of similarities to your 1998 > model? > Sure, it has four wheels, AC, airbags, stereo, etc. ... but the new > one also > has new features that the old one doesn't. Is it fair to accuse Honda > of > simply re-branding the old 1998 Accord as a 2003 and selling you the > same > old product under a new name simply because you don't understand the > value > in any of the new features? I'd think not. You can CHOOSE to simply > keep > driving that 1998 Accord. > > Phil B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: marc@kaiwi.com [mailto:marc@kaiwi.com] > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 11:10 AM > To: WebDNA-Talk@talk.smithmicro.com > Subject: Re: Hosts who have upgraded to v5.0? > > I have to add to this. I agree, and I'm very upset about it. > > The fact is that SmithMicro has priced me right out of their product > and I'm mad about it. I purchased WebCatalog (several licenses in fact) > at a premium price under the assumption that it was a good product and > one that I would continue to develop, promote and upgrade. > > Unfortunately SmithMicro is in fact dropping the products I purchased, > repackaging the same product and trying to sell it back to me again at > a premium price as if it were some kind of new program all together. > Some might argue that it is indeed a new product but when I look at, > It's the same software in a new box. > > I couldn't begin to suggest or talk about marketing strategy because I > don't know anything about it. All I see as an end user of this product > is that, as it turns out it would seem that it was a bad choice on my > part to invest the time and money in SmithMicro's product in the first > place only to have them price me right out of the market. > > I won't make the same mistake again with SM. I may have to discontinue > any further WebDNA upgrades but that won't stop me from developing new > software with what ever tools are available to me and the fact is I > don't really care who's name is on the tool box i use but unfortunately > it doesn't look like it's going to be SmithMicro. > > SIDE BAR: The whole issue of the new product marketing and pricing has > been a joke from the beginning. I've read (on this list) many hundreds > if not thousands of words from SM's crack sales team packed full of all > kinds of dynamic sounding techno sales jargon and it still took > hundreds of emails back and forth from SM and folks on this list to > figure out how much the thing would cost!! Come on! Sheeshhh. > > : c) > > Thanks, > > MK > > > > > On Monday, March 31, 2003, at 09:06 AM, Claude Gelinas wrote: > >> Hi Kenneth, >> >> It's a very expensive upgrade and it's nowhere close to my available >> budget for such an upgrade. I'd go as far as 500$US for a fully >> unlimited license. That's the absolute max. >> >> Unfortunately, the folks at SmithMicro seem to think we're rich, or >> something. They fail to see PHP's rock solid capabilities and free >> license (which makes a world of a difference since). >> >> Since a lot of the action on the list seems like it's slowing down, I >> take it that perhaps a majority of WebDNA users are already toying >> aroung with the thousands of PHP scripts freely available at >> http://hotscripts.com/ to convert everything they built with WebDNA in >> the past in order to have 100% PHP operations in the future. >> >> It's sad but SmithMicro can't understand the logic of small web shops >> like mine. They seem to think we're very rich and the only way out for >> us is to pay their insanely high prices and unattractive conditions >> (the domain limitation, namely). >> >> An alternative talk of this matter is going on at >> http://webmaster.mbnx.net/ but my biggest wish would be that >> SmithMicro woke up and got a brutal reality check: we're NOT rich! We >> love the language but raising the bar for us all will just kill the >> language by pushing everyone to something they can afford, such as > >> PHP. >> >> God, I really hope they wake up! >> >> Here's a bit of advice: being generous will make you insanely rich. Be >> a grinch and you'll choke under your own paranoia that you're it. >> SmithMicro: please get a brain. Your sky-high prices are killing any >> chance for the language to seriously take off in the market. It >> doesn't take a genie to figure that one out but obviously, SmithMicro >> still isn't figuring it out... >> >> I wouldn't say all this if I wasn't madly in love in your language. >> I'm doing it because I care. >> >> Respectfully yours, > > Signed: Marc Kaiwi ------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/
andy mowrey
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