Re: WebDNA Book?
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2003
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 47535
interpreted = N
texte = Well, I guess I'm responsible for setting this thread on fire, so I'd like to chime back in, now that I can see some support from the list.1) I think that the very first effort should be to convince SMSI that they NEED TO PUT SOME MONEY INTO A MARKETING EFFORT SUCH AS THIS, PERIOD. It sucks that we even have to consider doing this for free and paying for the printing ourselves. A good compromise would be for the developers to organize and do the work for free, as Donovan suggested, and have SMSI foot the bill for the printing/marketing/distribution. I mean, geez, If the ROI of a campaign such as this isn't apparent enough to persuade the suits at SMSI to fork over some cash then the fact that Advertising & Marketing is tax-deductible for a business should help to soften the 'risk-blow'...2) If this comes to fruition, in exchange for working for free, those who materially participated in the project should get royalties from the sales of the book until the end of time. That is normal for authors.3) I would absolutely love to participate in this, as Donovan suggested. I don't have any particular 'area of WebEDNA expertise', but besides the normal heavy-lifting, I do have an interest in using WebDNA to help with the actual layout of HTML pages, maybe I could contribute to an area like that...4) Let's face it, folks, if SMSI doesn't contribute financially to something like this, it will die on the vine like so many other 'community projects' I have seen come and go in my short time on the list (anybody remember the WebDNA Contest? Or what about the WebDNA Developer Center... not a lot of action going on there, though it's ceratianly very well done and has a lot of potential. Not many around here have time to work for free, even if it's a labor of love. It's easy to look at the PHP community and see all of the activity there because ITS A FREE LANGUAGE. It's easy to contribute to a product that you didn't have to invest in. WebDNA is f%$@ing expensive and it takes X amount of billable time to realize the ROI on that investment. We shouldn't have to fund SMSI's Marketing Budget any more than we already do by licensing their product.5) Phil, Sal, everyone, please don't take this as a bash against SMSI, it is constructive criticism coming from a single developer who very much loves this product and sees it's current and potential value. That's all. Take it or leave it, there's nothing personal in my statements; it's all business.6) I agree with Alain that SMSI has maken great marketing strides in the past 12 months, but I also agree with Ken, that based on historical data (that I have gleaned from 'old-timers' on the list), it really isn't enough. More marketing =more sales=cheaper price=more sales. Somwhere this cycle needs a boost from SMSI.Ok, I'm done ranting. No matter what happens, I still think that a more mainstream-friendly WebDNA how-to book is a good idea and I would be happy to participate in it, though I would expect to be paid for my time and/or share in the proceeds of its sale. I'm through working for free.-Dan ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.StrongGraphicDesign.com (208) 319-0137 | Toll-free p/f 877-561-1656 ------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:39:08 -0600 Gary Krockover
wrote: >4 years of WebDNA experience come this April for me, I'm willing to pitch in >a section or two as well. > > Question though, do they purposely geek you out for those pictures on the >covers of Wrox books? Apologies to anyone here that may actually have their >picture on a cover of a Wrox book.... : ) > >GK > > >> This was my thoughts as well and why I suggested maybe pitching it to >> wrox. This is how most if not all of their books are written. Just a >> thought. I would be willing to put my 4+ years of WebDNA experience >> into a section or two :) >> >> - Charles >> >> >> On Friday, February 7, 2003, at 09:24 AM, Donovan wrote: >> >> > Just a thought. One of the things I see is that people basically >> > say its too much time/effort for the return. This may be true >> > for an individual but what about a committee? I would think >> > that if each of us tackled a particular part we could get a book >> > done fairly quickly. Perhaps some of developers with more >> > years in the battle field (such as Ken, John P, John H, Scott, >> > Grant (if he's not so tired with his invention yet ;-) etc.. could >> > be chief editors or such. ( Putting some of these names together >> > might be opening a can of worms :-)?? But, I think there is ways >> > that we could happily achieve the goal. Such as: Maybe these Chief >> > Editors >> > would be give a certain aspect of the book to Edit?. This way >> > might limit the bickering. Some of the up and coming developers >> > (such as myself) could actually write different parts. For example, >> > I think I am skilled enough when it comes to the Formula's database >> > to get it blocked out and then have someone look it over for editing >> > or critique... When I get back my comments, I would then go >> > back and correct things. Once I have a finnished piece of text, I >> > would send my .pdf, bbedit file (or whatever) to someone in charge of >> > putting it >> > together. At that point, we could either find financing (for the >> > actuall >> > printing) or ?. >> > WebDNA by the developers >> > >> > The point is that we all have to make a living and by slicing up >> > the responsibility, we accomplish a goal with minimal effort and >> > we can still buy the latest Smith Micro copy of WebDNA. >> > >> > If it makes money, I guess we devide it up. (or throw a big >> > party somewhere and hire some 80's hair band to play) >> > >> > Donovan >> > >> > >> > -- >> > -Donovan Brooke >> > -Administrator of IT / >> > -Assc. Art Director >> > -Creative Services >> > -Epsen Hillmer Graphics >> > >> > -402.342.1169 X297 > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . >To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to >Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
Well, I guess I'm responsible for setting this thread on fire, so I'd like to chime back in, now that I can see some support from the list.1) I think that the very first effort should be to convince SMSI that they NEED TO PUT SOME MONEY INTO A MARKETING EFFORT SUCH AS THIS, PERIOD. It sucks that we even have to consider doing this for free and paying for the printing ourselves. A good compromise would be for the developers to organize and do the work for free, as Donovan suggested, and have SMSI foot the bill for the printing/marketing/distribution. I mean, geez, If the ROI of a campaign such as this isn't apparent enough to persuade the suits at SMSI to fork over some cash then the fact that Advertising & Marketing is tax-deductible for a business should help to soften the 'risk-blow'...2) If this comes to fruition, in exchange for working for free, those who materially participated in the project should get royalties from the sales of the book until the end of time. That is normal for authors.3) I would absolutely love to participate in this, as Donovan suggested. I don't have any particular 'area of WebEDNA expertise', but besides the normal heavy-lifting, I do have an interest in using WebDNA to help with the actual layout of HTML pages, maybe I could contribute to an area like that...4) Let's face it, folks, if SMSI doesn't contribute financially to something like this, it will die on the vine like so many other 'community projects' I have seen come and go in my short time on the list (anybody remember the WebDNA Contest? Or what about the WebDNA Developer Center... not a lot of action going on there, though it's ceratianly very well done and has a lot of potential. Not many around here have time to work for free, even if it's a labor of love. It's easy to look at the PHP community and see all of the activity there because ITS A FREE LANGUAGE. It's easy to contribute to a product that you didn't have to invest in. WebDNA is f%$@ing expensive and it takes X amount of billable time to realize the ROI on that investment. We shouldn't have to fund SMSI's Marketing Budget any more than we already do by licensing their product.5) Phil, Sal, everyone, please don't take this as a bash against SMSI, it is constructive criticism coming from a single developer who very much loves this product and sees it's current and potential value. That's all. Take it or leave it, there's nothing personal in my statements; it's all business.6) I agree with Alain that SMSI has maken great marketing strides in the past 12 months, but I also agree with Ken, that based on historical data (that I have gleaned from 'old-timers' on the list), it really isn't enough. More marketing =more sales=cheaper price=more sales. Somwhere this cycle needs a boost from SMSI.Ok, I'm done ranting. No matter what happens, I still think that a more mainstream-friendly WebDNA how-to book is a good idea and I would be happy to participate in it, though I would expect to be paid for my time and/or share in the proceeds of its sale. I'm through working for free.-Dan ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.StrongGraphicDesign.com (208) 319-0137 | Toll-free p/f 877-561-1656 ------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:39:08 -0600 Gary Krockover wrote: >4 years of WebDNA experience come this April for me, I'm willing to pitch in >a section or two as well. > > Question though, do they purposely geek you out for those pictures on the >covers of Wrox books? Apologies to anyone here that may actually have their >picture on a cover of a Wrox book.... : ) > >GK > > >> This was my thoughts as well and why I suggested maybe pitching it to >> wrox. This is how most if not all of their books are written. Just a >> thought. I would be willing to put my 4+ years of WebDNA experience >> into a section or two :) >> >> - Charles >> >> >> On Friday, February 7, 2003, at 09:24 AM, Donovan wrote: >> >> > Just a thought. One of the things I see is that people basically >> > say its too much time/effort for the return. This may be true >> > for an individual but what about a committee? I would think >> > that if each of us tackled a particular part we could get a book >> > done fairly quickly. Perhaps some of developers with more >> > years in the battle field (such as Ken, John P, John H, Scott, >> > Grant (if he's not so tired with his invention yet ;-) etc.. could >> > be chief editors or such. ( Putting some of these names together >> > might be opening a can of worms :-)?? But, I think there is ways >> > that we could happily achieve the goal. Such as: Maybe these Chief >> > Editors >> > would be give a certain aspect of the book to Edit?. This way >> > might limit the bickering. Some of the up and coming developers >> > (such as myself) could actually write different parts. For example, >> > I think I am skilled enough when it comes to the Formula's database >> > to get it blocked out and then have someone look it over for editing >> > or critique... When I get back my comments, I would then go >> > back and correct things. Once I have a finnished piece of text, I >> > would send my .pdf, bbedit file (or whatever) to someone in charge of >> > putting it >> > together. At that point, we could either find financing (for the >> > actuall >> > printing) or ?. >> > WebDNA by the developers >> > >> > The point is that we all have to make a living and by slicing up >> > the responsibility, we accomplish a goal with minimal effort and >> > we can still buy the latest Smith Micro copy of WebDNA. >> > >> > If it makes money, I guess we devide it up. (or throw a big >> > party somewhere and hire some 80's hair band to play) >> > >> > Donovan >> > >> > >> > -- >> > -Donovan Brooke >> > -Administrator of IT / >> > -Assc. Art Director >> > -Creative Services >> > -Epsen Hillmer Graphics >> > >> > -402.342.1169 X297 > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . >To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to >Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/
Dan Strong
DOWNLOAD WEBDNA NOW!
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