RE: [WebDNA] a major shift in strategy?
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2008
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 101138
interpreted = N
texte = Hi all, I usually remain silent, orbiting the forum and staying in touch with WebDNA for just as many years that I cared to remember. Given the numerous takes on php and webdna, the course of action for webdna to take and what have you ....I am compelled to say ....hey folks, let us give the saviors of WebDNA a break. Years wasted away and SM did little to push WebDNA. Surely, we cannot expect just months for Don and gang to do the nasty ...clean up the freakin mess. I am just thrilled that at least WebDNA is still alive and am willing to wait it out for the good folks to sort things out. Let us keep the faith and play nice. After all, riddle me this ....shit happened ...many webdna programmers left us during the difficult period switching to php, cf, asp or what have you and yet, there is a band of loyal WebDNA diehards that still stuck it through till this day. Sing whatever tune you care about the other languages but so long as there are good people, with good intentions to build on WebDNA ...it will remain my top billboard hit as a language of choice. My personal view people, so don't give me grief please. Now on to some of my thoughts. The established players are in the market and it is going to take much time, effort, resources, marketing and money to compete. Here is a radical idea ....don't compete directly, instead ...be a symbiotic parasite and become indispensable to the programming community. That is the next best way to quickly gain market share ...ride your primary sponsor so to speak. They do well ...you do well. For example, Flash / Flex is making significant inroads to desktop solutions and applications. In fact, my business thrive in this area where I combine Flash / Flex applications with WebDNA to run full operational systems for businesses from logistics, ordering, POS, telemarketing, statistical engines and more ....WebDNA being the main backend database. The Flash / Flex community need a good, easy to use and flexible database engine to work in harmony with it. All the more if it could run compiled, local to the application ...like RealBasic and their in-built database. Doable I say because to compile and bundle the Flash / Flex apps and yet gain control of the PC with most OS, we use MDM from http://www.multidmedia.com/ ...god knows they are a parasite too. Have WebDNA as a plug-in to install via MDM and voila ....Flash/Flex apps take on a new dimension ....with WebDNA as one of its key tool. So you see, WebDNA as a parasite that feeds off and yet support Flash / Flex / MDM ensures that so long as Adobe thrives (he host) ...so will the parasites. Ok ...OK, wishful thinking ....but damn if I am not going to swing some votes this way when people are talking Universal CGI and stuff ...;-) Sorry for the ramble ....but hopefully, it opens up alternative options for the future. Meanwhile, I will patiently wait for the boys to kick-start the WebDNA engine, after having juiced it up ...to ride off into the sunset as a hero among software resurrection. Talk about hollywood drama ... Cheers Terry D. Nair -----Original Message----- From: christophe.billiottet@webdna.us [mailto:christophe.billiottet@webdna.us] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 18:33 To: talk@webdna.us Subject: Re: [WebDNA] a major shift in strategy? Hello Bob! WebDNA is alive now and i want you to know we are addressing addressing all the issues, one by one. We cannot go faster because it is not like fixing small chunks of C++ code that we wrote ourselves. Behind WebDNA engine is a huge amount of great ideas and things has to be done right. Most of those who switched from WebDNA to PHP have had to hire a php coder(s) to rewrite their work. This is the point: designers and webmasters must rely on programmers. Using WebDNA, they don't. Cost is now a crucial matter; who says "easier" also says "less expensive" and more competitive. WebDNA vs. php shows two different philosophies: php programmers will tell you they actually *think* OOP, but I know many designers who have been able to write their first WebDNA applications in days or weeks and have never been able to learn the highly technical php language, because web designers and webmasters think sequentially. To quote Patrick McCormick, "[html language] seems to always be sequential, where the benefits of an object oriented scripting environment have no meaning or usefulness. You just need a quick way to hack text mercilessly. That where WebDNA excels. It is the final hack on everything emitted from the server, and those hacks can be as sophisticated or interative as any user could ever want or need." Also, WebDNA is not just as a scripting language: it is a very powerful database that by itself could be a standalone application, all using the same simple syntax. A small 10MB engine easily replaces php and a MySQL server. There is nothing that can be compared to it. Now, think of PHP as a 10 years continuous-development engine, with support of millions... and still with this, i would not replace my 2004 WebDNA engine with PHP, and none of us would, otherwise we would not be on this list anymore: this shows how ahead of time WebDNA was, and still is: is there anything that can be done with php5 that could not be done with the 2004 WebDNA engine? you would have to look hard to find something. Soon, we will catch up with platforms, processors and small bugs and we will give WebDNA the place it deserves. No doubt about this, and i do not think it is worthwhile to keep shooting at us because "things do not go fast enough".
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
Hi all, I usually remain silent, orbiting the forum and staying in touch with WebDNA for just as many years that I cared to remember. Given the numerous takes on php and webdna, the course of action for webdna to take and what have you ....I am compelled to say ....hey folks, let us give the saviors of WebDNA a break. Years wasted away and SM did little to push WebDNA. Surely, we cannot expect just months for Don and gang to do the nasty ...clean up the freakin mess. I am just thrilled that at least WebDNA is still alive and am willing to wait it out for the good folks to sort things out. Let us keep the faith and play nice. After all, riddle me this ....shit happened ...many webdna programmers left us during the difficult period switching to php, cf, asp or what have you and yet, there is a band of loyal WebDNA diehards that still stuck it through till this day. Sing whatever tune you care about the other languages but so long as there are good people, with good intentions to build on WebDNA ...it will remain my top billboard hit as a language of choice. My personal view people, so don't give me grief please. Now on to some of my thoughts. The established players are in the market and it is going to take much time, effort, resources, marketing and money to compete. Here is a radical idea ....don't compete directly, instead ...be a symbiotic parasite and become indispensable to the programming community. That is the next best way to quickly gain market share ...ride your primary sponsor so to speak. They do well ...you do well. For example, Flash / Flex is making significant inroads to desktop solutions and applications. In fact, my business thrive in this area where I combine Flash / Flex applications with WebDNA to run full operational systems for businesses from logistics, ordering, POS, telemarketing, statistical engines and more ....WebDNA being the main backend database. The Flash / Flex community need a good, easy to use and flexible database engine to work in harmony with it. All the more if it could run compiled, local to the application ...like RealBasic and their in-built database. Doable I say because to compile and bundle the Flash / Flex apps and yet gain control of the PC with most OS, we use MDM from http://www.multidmedia.com/ ...god knows they are a parasite too. Have WebDNA as a plug-in to install via MDM and voila ....Flash/Flex apps take on a new dimension ....with WebDNA as one of its key tool. So you see, WebDNA as a parasite that feeds off and yet support Flash / Flex / MDM ensures that so long as Adobe thrives (he host) ...so will the parasites. Ok ...OK, wishful thinking ....but damn if I am not going to swing some votes this way when people are talking Universal CGI and stuff ...;-) Sorry for the ramble ....but hopefully, it opens up alternative options for the future. Meanwhile, I will patiently wait for the boys to kick-start the WebDNA engine, after having juiced it up ...to ride off into the sunset as a hero among software resurrection. Talk about hollywood drama ... Cheers Terry D. Nair -----Original Message----- From: christophe.billiottet@webdna.us [mailto:christophe.billiottet@webdna.us] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 18:33 To: talk@webdna.us Subject: Re: [WebDNA] a major shift in strategy? Hello Bob! WebDNA is alive now and i want you to know we are addressing addressing all the issues, one by one. We cannot go faster because it is not like fixing small chunks of C++ code that we wrote ourselves. Behind WebDNA engine is a huge amount of great ideas and things has to be done right. Most of those who switched from WebDNA to PHP have had to hire a php coder(s) to rewrite their work. This is the point: designers and webmasters must rely on programmers. Using WebDNA, they don't. Cost is now a crucial matter; who says "easier" also says "less expensive" and more competitive. WebDNA vs. php shows two different philosophies: php programmers will tell you they actually *think* OOP, but I know many designers who have been able to write their first WebDNA applications in days or weeks and have never been able to learn the highly technical php language, because web designers and webmasters think sequentially. To quote Patrick McCormick, "[html language] seems to always be sequential, where the benefits of an object oriented scripting environment have no meaning or usefulness. You just need a quick way to hack text mercilessly. That where WebDNA excels. It is the final hack on everything emitted from the server, and those hacks can be as sophisticated or interative as any user could ever want or need." Also, WebDNA is not just as a scripting language: it is a very powerful database that by itself could be a standalone application, all using the same simple syntax. A small 10MB engine easily replaces php and a MySQL server. There is nothing that can be compared to it. Now, think of PHP as a 10 years continuous-development engine, with support of millions... and still with this, i would not replace my 2004 WebDNA engine with PHP, and none of us would, otherwise we would not be on this list anymore: this shows how ahead of time WebDNA was, and still is: is there anything that can be done with php5 that could not be done with the 2004 WebDNA engine? you would have to look hard to find something. Soon, we will catch up with platforms, processors and small bugs and we will give WebDNA the place it deserves. No doubt about this, and i do not think it is worthwhile to keep shooting at us because "things do not go fast enough".
"Terry Nair"
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